Lorries in London, it'd be alright if cyclists just saw their point of view.

Buffalo Bill First of all, I don't say that cyclists were infallible. That's obviously nonsense. No group of road-users is inherently infallible.

Where I have seen the evidence in cyclist/hgv/lorry fatalities, which is 5 cases, the lorry driver was culpable. Either failure to observe or failure to signal.

There is big problem with HGV cyclist collisions. The problem is partly a lack of awareness on the part of cyclists that simply riding along the road, following marked cycle paths and obeying the law will not keep you safe. But also there is problem with a basic lack of safety equipment on lorries and training in its use. The guy who killed Cynthia Barlow's daughter said that not only did he not look in the proximity mirror before turning, but that he also had never used it, and NEVER been trained its correct use.

There's also a problem with cyclists and other road-users saying that any cyclist (whether they know the circumstances or not) killed by a left-turning lorry is at fault or worse. The most notable case was the LCC borough organiser who described Seb Lukomski as an idiot and the uk.rec.cycling contributor who anonymously described him as a 'fuck-wit'. Attitudes like this endorse the view that a cyclist who dies as the result of a collision with a left-turning lorry must automatically bear the blame.

Which is how you are coming off, to me. Maybe I am getting you wrong.

I agree that lorry drivers etc need to be made aware of the dangers they pose to cyclists. In no way am I trying to disrespect the deaths of anyone but I am tired of a seemingly one-sided view that cyclists are never to blame, attitudes like that only encourage reckless riding.