RLJ (Red Light Jumping). (The definitive bikeradar thread)

For some people it’s a contentious subject. Do you always red light jump? or do you sometimes stop in order to show off your trackstanding skills? I find it difficult to choose sometimes.

It depends on the junction, the level of risk (to everyone else as well as me), the circumstances leading up to the junction, etc.

There are a few junctions I will always jump. These are death traps to not jump, where you get caught on the inside of trucks and buses, or where you get caught facing oncoming traffic if you've gone around.

There are some I think are optional, it depends on traffic, pedestrians.

And some I will never jump as that is the more stupid thing to do (Hyde Park corner contra-flow is a good example... fast merging uphill into traffic that crosses your path).

I think each instance should be considered on it's own rather than generalised and clumped together. Most drivers I've spoken to agree that jumping lights is justified in some places, it's when it's every light, regardless of risk and endangering others that we start acquiring the bad reputation.

Yeah totally based on context. Would never say blanket action either way. Though i will always try and stop for pedestrians if its their right of way - but would happily jump infront/behind them if its safe to do so.

as a rule no. never ever at junctions with crossing/joining traffic. with pedestrian crossings (straight road, no crossing traffic) i sometimes slow down to a crawl look both ways then roll over slowly if there is nobody waiting to cross. everyone has their reasons for jumping lights backed up with arguments/statistics/accident avoiding examples but at the end of the day it pisses people off, is often dangerous and from talking to cabbies and other drivers is the main thing that makes them hate cyclists so much.
does it really save that much time? is it really worth it?
i once followed a RLJ from waterloo to stockwell, he nearly went under a police van at the old vic (it was on a call so didn't stop to nick him), caused a car to brake suddenly at lambeth north, got through the next junction safely. i then met him on a cycle route further on in stockwell coming round the roundabout the wrong way trying to join the same (narrow) exit as me, resulting in a "fuck-off".

so why put yourselves in so much danger if it doesn't really save any time?

I'm not going to try to tell other people not to as it's down to them, i just really can't see the point in doing it.

Sounds like that RLJ'er was a twerp. It can be done with reasonable safety to everyone else so long as you assess the situation and communicate clearly your intent to all other road users, pedestrians included. Going behind pedestrians is one trick that gives them confidence that you aren't out to hit them or threaten their safety. Sounds like the guy you mention was pure and simple reckless.

road users who have a blanket attitude (either way) to "red light jumping" have little understanding of how roads and junctions actually work.

the law states you stay put at a red light, which will pretty much work fine PROVIDING you get into the right position and can see properly.

however, many crossings and junctions will show a red whilst it's perfectly safe (and in some cases safer) for a push bike to proceed.

The skill is in knowing where and when these situations arise.

Now, can we hear no more of it and get back to drinking and pimp sprockets?

this isn't C+

Yeah, can this one. If anyone wants to waste their time arguing this one, they can go to C+. RLJ debates are a virus that infect cycling boards, and render them virtually useless.

RPM, the only time I push my bike is when I am too drunk to pedal it...

:-)

maybe start a fakenger thread instead ? :-)

lol

Damn good idea that. I'm buying me a walkie talkie so I can look all authentic.

Buffalo Bill: RPM, the only time I push my bike is when I am too drunk to pedal it... :-)

me too, they make decent enough walking frames for the very inebriated.

I often find, when pushing my bike whilst drunk, that I'm not as drunk as I first thought and in fact can jump on and ride home!

I wonder whether I should be the type of forum admin that sinks discussions on:

[]Red light jumping[]To wear a helmet or not[]Brakes vs no brakes[]Other blatantly flame-war material that really isn't going to make anyone change whatever opinion they already hold[/list]

I can't remember where I read it, but on one forum someone had written:
"Arguing on the internet is a bit like taking part in the Special Olympics; whether you win or lose, after the event you're still a retard".

I never mind these debates really, what narks me more than the views people have (all of which have reasonable amount of validity) is usually that the topic gets polarised. I guess I dislike black/white choices more than grey ones.

somebody ends up saying "its all cycling, it's all good" :-)

have a poll?

I reckon you should, as I said, personally I think all that shit is catered for on things like c+ where the yellow bibs can argue out the fakengers all day long.

we don't give a shit do we?

Not really, I think we'd rather just have a drink, kick back, cycle home, jump some red lights, whilst wearing no helmet, and going down a one-way street the wrong way, without brakes... or something like that ;)

It's all cycling, it's all good :)

anyone for a bullhorns vs. drops debate?
;-)

Didn't we do that in the bar thread?
How about a real fixed topic?

clips&straps versus clipless pedals!

I'm think I should start that one now. I always thought it was hands-down clipless but see now there's logic behind clips.

If you want to run them, run them. If you want to stop, stop.

slamm:anyone for a bullhorns vs. drops debate? ;-)

Bull-horns are for people that find drops too complicated.

It didn't start it as a debate on the morals of RLJ, I am sure we are all agreed that RLJ is not a big deal. It was more the conflict between time efficiency (red light jumping) and style (track standing) that we face every day in London traffic.

Hmmm, and what about the red man/green man pedestrian debate?

Personally I wait for the green man whilst balancing on one leg, sometimes with one hand in the air.

The other peds are completely in awe of my grace and balance.

i am working on my no hands, standing trackstand at the minute, so i dont RLJ as much as i used to. all the peds ignore you, but you can tell their impressed really.

I like to stop at red lights,

throw a late seventies, cardigan model catalogue pose and bask in the awe of pedestrians as they marvel at my fortitude

I stopped at a red light at a big junction today.
I put my foot down and had a rest.
As I waited I saw two coppers on foot, a community support officer (fakicer) who stopped to cross the road right in front of me and a squad car go through with "both bars on".

If i'd jumped I'd have either been flattened by the blues and twos going at a rate, or eyeballed and bawled at by the Peelers.

Sometimes it helps to have some foresight. I was also carrying a valuable package.

I also just had an apple. hope this helps.

BringMeMyFix:Personally I wait for the green man whilst balancing on one leg, sometimes with one hand in the air.

The other peds are completely in awe of my grace and balance.

gav:i am working on my no hands, standing trackstand at the minute, so i dont RLJ as much as i used to. all the peds ignore you, but you can tell their impressed really.

I wasn't talking about being on my bike. I'm debating the ethics of how to act as a pedestrian at lights. Trackstanding, without the 'track' part.

I'm working on my no-handed seated 'standing'. Quite a feat of biomechanics :-)