How do I bathroom / kitchen / extension? etc.

Yep that's all fine, but it's a different issue to what I'm talking about.

I've also said quite clearly that I don't think all trades are rip-offs, I've said that our builder has been quite transparent about it and happy to share how the pricing and negotiation work.

But the Howdens system, which is what my complaint was about, is obviously set up to include a big grey area.

I have a trade account with Howdens but have been told by a joiner that they give different discounts.
Not sure if this is on level of sales?

yes my mistake, was probably thinking of one of the others (magnet?) where the prices were 40% different.

Sorry, another vague question. How much do you think it would cost just to do the structural elements of a loft conversion? For now, I just want to create the bare bones of the the space. No boarding, heating, electricity. I have a Victorian terrace house.

Well, Magnet are doing 50% off all kitchen cabinets if that gives some indication of their markup…

During non sale season, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are willing to negotiate close to sales season discounts.

We paid £65k all in for a end of terrace conversion last year. I think you'd probably pay two-thirds of that if you can find a builder to do what you want.

I do think what you are asking for is unrealistic though - if you want it insulated (and you will have to in order to meet building regs at some point), then you'd need to do the first fix for the electrics and plumbing. What's driving the idea of doing it partially, budget presumably?

The (effective) markup for time/effort/etc is fine but many tradespeople will double dip and do all their procurement during time they're charging out a day rate.

I also suspect a lot of tradespeople have lost sight of just how expensive they are. I don't know what drives the lack of perspective but I hear a lot of chat along the lines of 'I'm cheap at £350 /day', whereas UK average PAYE is less than half that, with none of the 'tax efficiency' available to contractors.

I rated DIY kitchens - showroom is pretty helpful too. Good experience from pretty much every angle - only downside was having to dismantle the (dry fit as specced) corner unit in the dark front garden when the delivery lorry turned up.

Budget indeed. The tiles on my roof are in a pretty poor state and must be replaced. I thought it made sense to start the loft conversion whilst all the scaffolding was up. I'll be able to access my savings in September so I can do the remaining work then. In the past couple of weeks, I've suffered a few leaks so I'm concerned if we continue to have a bleak winter the house will suffer.

When we were negotiating with Howdens the guy said he had to hit a target average margin. They'll take more off stuff they make Vs buy in as they've got more to play with. We sourced our worktop direct which means more could come off the cabinets or something like that.

No doubt still overpaid but it was a lot less than the first number!

Did everything turn up in good condition?

The main negative I've read about them is things turning up damaged and then the time taken to replace.

If we went with them it would probably be custom painted as well which means an even longer wait and potential matching issues if it's doors or panels that are damaged.

I'm also not completely sure that I trust us not to change our minds about whether we really do want a drawer there or whether we could squeeze another unit in the island which Howdens would be better accommodating.

For us everything turned up in good condition apart from 1 wall unit which was damaged, they had a new one with us (and an additional panel we fucked up and missed off) within the week.

reply from my sister who had the work done in the last year. They were originally thinking of doing just the shell, but it ended up making more sense to get everything bar the decorating done while the trades were there

the estimates for the shell were around 60k though, but that included a new roof, so more like 50k. this for a 2 bed mid terrace in SE18

That's good to hear. I've heard a lot of good things as well, and the Facebook group for planning advice etc has a lot of examples that look really good. We'll try and get to the showroom over Christmas and also to the Howdens Expo.

Thanks for the info. £50k is a a lot less than I imagined

They were quite constrained in what they could do - conservation area and they could only get permission for a couple of dormer windows at the back, rather than a full width

just chiming in to also rate DIYkitchens. Customer service good, unit quality seems good. Price definitely good.

My son was ill so I had the day off work today and took him to the new DIY Kitchens showroom.

I liked what I saw, the staff were great, and aside from another wobble on colour it mainly shored up what I had in the plan rather than shaking me out of it which is good.

Please can everyone with a recently-done kitchen post pictures of it so I can be jealous/find inspiration/be sure that I'm happy with what we're going for before we commit to anything more firmly?

Before all the fancy pants stuff turns up: we had the chippy back in to do more flooring recently and he took some pictures of the kitchen he did for us last year.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DDHTOM6tKVN/?igsh=MTVpejU3M3RvOHJsZA==

That's really nice!

I really like the oak carcasses (an option at DIY but probably too expensive) and the floor especially - where was the floor from?

Thanks! Certainly a step up from the not-really-a-kitchen that we moved in to.

Floor was a recommendation from on here I think, from Stories. We’ve now bought a second batch from them for other rooms, and I don’t really understand their business model, only seems to be one brand of stuff. It’s been fine though, even when ive trodden on a screw and dug a hole out of one. Bit of steam and it was almost good as new

On the more affordable scale of things here:
Ikea cabinets and fronts
Worktops direct iroko worktop
Samsung appliances
Granorte cork floor
Terrazzo effect tiles from a now defunct website

1 Attachment

Looks great!

That is bloody lovely.

@Gewürzt @skinny
Thank you both. Took a while for it to come together but we’re very happy with how it turned out. Just have the pain of wood worktop maintenance to keep up with