US Politics

Biden didn't have much to lose. His reputation and legacy were already trashed. So he thought he might as well trash them a bit more to keep his son safe. Understandable.

I think I agree. It's not like this will unleash Trump and the MAGA lot to behave badly. That they would always do the worst possible thing with no compunction whatsoever was already a given.

Hunter's an addict with MH problems. The circus of being pursued by Trump's justice department plus a spell in prison would wreck his life and health, maybe kill him. There've been so many deaths in Biden's family. And the Dems were never going to forgive him for undermining their election chances. So why not put his family first? He can have a quiet retirement, trying to be a good father and grandfather. Maybe he'll even be able to keep Hunter on the straight and narrow.

Understand that he wants to prevent his son from revenge, and why he thinks Trump will keep coming for him. But, if he had done this differently e.g. bundled it in with pardoning of federal Death Row prisoners or some others serving egregious sentences, it could have resulted in so much less focus on Bad Hunter/Crooked Joe and made it part of a wider debate on sentencing. He's managed this exceptionally poorly, and made it really easy for the Reps to weaponise.

and made it really easy for the Reps to weaponise.

They've been using Hunter Biden as a target for the past 8 years, with very little evidence of any actual wrongdoing. Trump's nomination for Director of the FBI, Kash Patel, has been appearing on every right wing podcast for the past four years saying how he's going to go after him once Trump is re-elected. Whatever happened, they are going to weaponise it.

I find the asymmetry here, and I mean this as a general point on media coverage rather than on contributions to this thread, quite eye opening. Trump pardoned loads of his allies before he left office last time, including Roger Stone, who was then deeply involved in the attempted resurrection, and nothing much was made of it by large swathes of the media.

Biden pardons his only remaining son, and loads of media commentators clutch their pearls and criticise him for nepotism. There's very clearly one rule for him, and no rules for Trump, partly because everyone expects him to be corrupt as fuck.

Of course they are, but if he'd put it into a more packed news cycle with more discussion points attached to it, he's at least got a measure of mitigation and there are other things to talk about. He's made it the only show in town this week. It was never going to look good, but it didn't have to be this bad.

attempted resurrection

Did they manage it?

He's managed this exceptionally poorly, and made it really easy for the Reps to weaponise.

Stop if you've heard this one before

Kind of with you on this. It all stinks a bit, but who here wouldn't pardon a loved one in the same situation?

He has put his personal interests above his responsibilities to the American people as President. It is another degradation of public office.

This is the question for me: does this mark the end of Democrats "going high"? If this means that they are going to degrade the office in pursuit of their personal goals, does it mean that they'll also do it in pursuit of their political goals? Is there any way that this can be perceived positively as Democrats giving themselves permission to join Trump in ignoring previous political norms to get positive things done?

How might this affect Ukraine? Were it not for the pardon, maybe Trump would have tried to blackmail Zelensky again. And maybe that's another reason why Biden did it.

There is a lot of doublethink going on here.

Unquestionably Hunter was trading on the Biden name to make money in Ukraine and China, in a way that was improper, if not criminal.

It is another degradation of public office.

IMO this should be criticised much more so than it has been in media etc. Sure you can "two side" the argument but then what is the diff between good people and cunts?

Whatever you say about Trump, he has no pretence, he will execute his evil agenda that he has promised and people can see it in him. This behaviour from Biden and holier than thou Democrats (when they go low we go high etc) is abhorrent.

Worse than how Biden has handled Palestine as it has domestic repercussions.

But it's all legal and above board. If they don't want presidential pardons then they should get rid of them, not wring their hands when they are used.

What is the difference of any of the trump pardons?

The entire concept is quite bonkers (although I don't know how it relates to pardons for people on death row, which I'm in favour of).

It is another degradation of public office.

I agree with you, as does Edward Luce in the FT https://www.ft.com/content/b45e0749-46f3-47ba-a0a8-eaae69a49bcd The ROW must be thinking that democracy is all faked. Joe is a foolish dodderer. He should have reined in Hunter years ago. And he should have stepped aside early to facilitate a primary. He's effing useless. All I'm saying is that I can understand why he wants to stop Hunter going to jail. But all things considered, shouldn't the Dems have found a better candidate in 2020? I liked the apparently unelectable Liz Warren.

But all things considered, shouldn't the Dems have found a better candidate in 2020?

Sure and lets assume dems won the elected, even then Biden should not have done this.

I'm loving all the 'well Trump's doing it worse 'comments. US politics is so far beyond corrupt it's laughable. But I guess a bit of corruption is ok for the right team?

If Biden hadn't been presidential candidate, Hunter's grifting wouldn't have been an issue.

It wouldn’t have come to it if Trump weren’t out for Biden blood.

The DoJ probably wouldn’t have bothered with him. If they did, they would’ve investigated him, and his lawyers would’ve come to a plea deal (which in this case they did) and the presiding judge would’ve accepted it (which in this case she didn’t). Whether or not her clear sympathies for trump influenced her judgement has yet to be established in a court of law, but it’s not unreasonable to suspect.

It’s all bonkers. The side being held to a high standard is treated as equal to the side flaunting that they hold no standards at all. Pardoning his persecuted son is nepotism, yes, but there’s zero chance the man would’ve had fair and open proceedings. It’s not in the same league as pardoning people for cash or because they broke the law to help you break other laws, which is mr. trjmp’s case.

I kinda like thinking of it as a test for Trump to try and un-do a presidential pardon, if he does then he sets a president for all the chuds he's inevitably going to pardon.

Trump has done far worse, and claimed corruption against him. Whilst the whole going for Hunter, the infamous trump phone call to Ukraine about Hunter.