Road fixed / fixed road

Just have to ride more defensively

This reminds me of the first time I tried fixed (outside of the track). I live on a hill. I rode down it, stopped at the bottom, flipped my wheel back to SS, and didn't ride fixed again for about a year, lol.

Legs to slow down helps if your legs aren't dead-liftedly dead, or similar. But it still puts me off doing proper fixed-road rides - city rides and group laps aren't so bad.

F + R brakes all the way wherever you ride. It's a mental thing. You need to feel secure whatever the terrain.

I’ve never found it much of a hassle aligning a rear brake on a fixed, although I’ve only ever had this set up once on a Pompino.

As others have said, tension the chain, align the brake, and you’re good to go. As long as you keep the chain reasonably well tensioned you shouldn’t have any issues.

Ultimately the best solution to keep a rear brake aligned on a fixed wheel bike is to use a rear disc brake and sliding dropouts.

Ultimately the best solution to keep a rear brake aligned on a fixed wheel bike is to use a rear disc brake and sliding dropouts.

There is a much simpler solution.

The forward opening dropouts which were a standard feature on road frames for many decades (say 1910 - 1980, at least) are angled down towards the front. This is precisely to maintain the correct angle of the brake blocks (pads if you will) as the wheel moves in the
fork end.

The attached pic of my Gillott shows this angle - I could find a clearer example, but I happen to have this one conveniently to hand.

A question: for non track use, can anyone explain why it is better to have rearward opening ends for fixed?

I can see disadvantages (eg: with mudguards it's difficult to get the wheel out to change a punctured tube), but no real advantages.

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A question: for non track use, can anyone explain why it is better to have rearward opening ends for fixed?
When you are laying down all those watts as you set off from the lights* if the wheel moves forward it doesn’t drop out of the dropouts.

*haven’t tightened the wheels nut properly.

Does the axle still not creep forward though?

Shouldn't do

I guess the main advantage used to be that you could ride your path/fixed bike on the track when you took off your brake(s) and guards. Nowadays we N+1 it.

Hi Chaley, I'm sure you yourself always tighten those wheel nuts efficiently, and possibly that's why you haven't noticed that if you don't get them tight the wheel just pulls over and jams against the left hand chainstay. It must be practically impossible to get the wheel to fall out of the frame in that way - I've never seen or heard of it happening.

However, it's certainly true that there is a theory that it can happen - just no evidence!

Yes, I'm sure you're correct, the axle should not 'creep forward' and even if it did it would not move evenly, but jam as mentioned above.

On your second point, I think there's something in what you say. Nowadays very few people actually ride their bikes to races and, as you say, we have multiple bikes.

However, track ends must give more scope for chain adjustment, so you can have a bigger difference between the sprockets on a double sided hub, which might be useful to an ambitious time triallist riding out to a flat course suitable for a big gear. Is there anyone who would still do that?

I have not been convinced about any benefits from either forward or rear opening ends, well at least not for my year round fixed. If I do a half decent job with the track nuts I'm simply not a big enough rider to bother moving the axle. And the clearance for the mudguards is tight (as is the fashion) so I would have to deflate the tyre to remove the wheel regardless of whether it was forward or rear removal. And the only time I really want to remove the rear wheel is when there is puncture so the tyre is pre-deflated for removal hahaha. I think there's only been one ride where I wish I'd swapped the wheel around, but I'd only have to knock out 40 psi or so to do it. Most of the fixed frames I've seen either way have similarly lengthen ends, bar the odd pure track frame which can have some really long ends but are useless for the road (or Extremely Rad I guess)

Sounds like to me it's one benefit is for the secondary rear brake, but I don't run a rear brake....

Some people used to go out to the Catford and Bec hill-climbs on 42/16, then ride the hills on 42/20.

Personally I love the aesthetic of track ends. (In all honestly it was seeing people riding brakeless track bikes around London many years ago that got me into cycling.)

Forward facing drop outs make sense but I’m not a fan of the huge gap I would have to leave between my wheel and the guard at the BB bridge. If I need to remove my rear wheel, I simply unscrew the mudguard stays which takes about 10 seconds.

I have only ever seen someone flip their rear wheel twice, and each time that was during an audax going up the Cairngorms snow roads. I used to have two cogs fitted to my hub but I used the bigger so infrequently (maybe twice in three years) that I removed it.

might be useful to an ambitious time triallist riding out to a flat course suitable for a big gear

If you're fit enough to push a big gear in the race, you're fit enough to push it on the way to the race. Most people aren't going to have to do anything worse than the climb from Marlow to Handy Cross, and you have to do that on your race gear 🙂

If you're going back to the olden days when we carried our sprints, a lower gear for the travelling bit would make sense, but I'm not that old so the only time I've used sprint carriers it was on a bike with a dérailleur anyway.

Yes, I was going back that far!

My comment wasn't intended to be about something I'd done myself, it was just a general remark about the possible advantages of track ends.

In fact, when I was very young I did ride a few TT's - on fixed, and I think I always rode out to the start. As far as I can remember I just rode on the wheels I was going to race on and hoped for the best, but of course I didn't have superlight tubs.

A little anecdote from that time. One of my young clubmates (probably 16 years of age) rode out from Hounslow to Pangbourne Lane (West of Reading, at least 30 miles) to ride his first 50. After getting to the start, he lost his nerve and decided that even if he could manage 50 miles at race speed, he would be too knackered to do the final 30 back home. So, when none of his mates were looking, he let one of his tubs down and told them that he had punctured and was going to DNS. (Again, he must have ridden out on his racing wheels)

The striking thing here is that adult clubmates would think it OK to take a 16 year old out to a TT which was going to involve a 110 mile round trip!

I think Condor at one point made a fixed gear frameset with horizontal dropouts precisely for this reason, as the frame was designed for commuting/audax with mudguards. I had a Surly crosscheck set up fixed like this and it worked well.

As @hollow__legs says you end up with a gap at the front of the mudguard which doesn't look great. Velo Orange make a spring loaded nut and bolt to help - it holds the mudguard close to the tyre and then you can push against the spring if you need to remove the wheel https://velo-orange.com/products/spring-thing?srsltid=AfmBOoqZPrGmxj8zFrNDAFMahqMMoeH5FiIpwL2FKOM43NBh8PJqVQup

For year-round fixed the advantage of forward facing drop outs (over track ends) is it’s easier to drop a wheel out to fix a flat, whilst running full, long mudguards.

I can’t really think of any other reasons off the top of my head.

Forward facing drop outs make sense but I’m not a fan of the huge gap I would have to leave between my wheel and the guard at the BB bridge.

I’ve only done it with road frames. Their dropouts are relatively short and more downward facing. Unless the tyre is inflated the gap needn’t be big.

I think Condor at one point made a fixed gear frameset with horizontal dropouts precisely for this reason

This sounds interesting, but I really don't quite understand how this was supposed to work.

For what it's worth, I have tried removing the back wheel from my Gillott (see post 2980 above) and it's tight, but it can just be done without delating the tyre. It's perhaps worth noting that this frame is now quite a way from the builder's original intentions, since it now has Campag ends and 700 wheels (probably intended for 26" since it dates from about 1950)

Turning the Wheel

The subject of track and road ends has provoked a livelier discussion that I would have expected. Here are two photos which may be of interest.

Sylvere Maes was the winner of the 1936 Tour which was the last to be run without derailleurs. This picture shows him about to remount after changing gear. Interestingly, the caption is wrong since it states the he is about to change (va changer) for the descent, but it's quite clear that the wheel has already been turned since the chain is on a small sprocket while the larger sprocket is on the left.
I'm pretty certain these are forward opening drop outs.

The other pic shows the little hook (usually a nail head) on the right hand chainstay of a pre-war frame. This is intended to catch and support the chain while the wheel is being turned. This frame also has forward opening drop outs.

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Turns out they still make it - it's called the Tempo. There's a photo on their website of the dropouts and the set up with mudguards https://www.condorcycles.com/products/condor-tempo-frameset?variant=45755739504961

I can't unsee.

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Bought a complete as my first SS/fixed back in about 2005/6 from SJS (http://www.websites on the decals, oooh), they called it their Winter bike. Steered like a boat, weighed a ton. But was a great intro. Had full guards and medium-long track ends. And they fitted SKS secu-clips on the rear so you could disconnect the rear guard and flex it enough to slip the wheel out. Was a really good, neat solution. Notably, knowall types in bike shops took pains to tell me the clips were ‘wrong’ and should only be on front guards. Took a while for me to realise why SJS had sensibly built them this way, and be able to put the patronizing bikeshop men right.

I’ve still got The Pest. Bought it off Men In A Shed about 10 years ago it had lost the dotcom bit. Still use it for quaxing and locking up.

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