In the news

but I wonder what caused the flight response more: his race (and the history of the Met's actions with black men); or his pastimes?

It could be both, but I personally don't think it matters.

The only time the police have spoken to me is when I was wasted and they caught me pissing against the wall up an alleyway.

Same, except I was doing it in a bin, which at the time I was adamant was the polite thing to do. They didn't agree.

I suggested they'd be better off talking to the two lads ("over there" points) kicking off outside the kebab shop, or the lad selling coke in the Barley Mow.

Pissed me is a bit of a clever cunt.

I'm not commenting on the rights or wrongs of this case, but just observing that deaths by police shooting are thankfully extremely rare in the UK, compared to the US.

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"Unknown" is doing a lot of lifting in the "we're not institutionally racist" propaganda.

In lighter news

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/18/dutch-woman-82-rides-bike/

Out of interest, who has been stopped or searched by the police?

Plenty of times.

In the UK I probably got pulled over 20 times. 125cc motorbike with L plates, often pulling out of a pub car park near midnight (I worked there). Breathalysed most times and passed every time as I'd never have more than a single pint if riding home.

In the US probably 5 times, all by armed police.

Being white and having a very English accent helped, pretty much as soon as I'd open my mouth to speak they'd holster their gun or take their hands off it (if they hadn't drawn it by then).

Once memorably I was trying to find my hotel in Ballston, VA and pulled into a big car park to look at the map (this was some time around 2000 so no car/mobile GPS). After a few minutes of staring at the map in my lap I heard a metallic tap on the window to my left. Uh oh. Look up at the cop who was now standing a couple of yards back with gun drawn but pointing at the ground between him and me. I'd had enough interaction with US cops to know what to do and, more importantly, what not to do. I lifted my hands up, dropped the map and gestured that I was going to wind down the window, did so and kept hands up. Again, as soon as I said "Hello officer, what seems to be the problem?" in my best Received Pronunciation his gun went away and he relaxed completely. He then asked me what I was doing in the Pentagon car park. "Aha, so that's where I am. I can't tell it's a pentagon from along side it. I was looking for the Hilton in Ballston..."

It was also great fun seeing their reaction to the the old style UK paper license as I unfolded it for them, I rarely got more than half way before they said "Oh, don't bother, no point me looking at that." It was a bit boring when I eventually got a US driving license after I moved there officially.

He then asked me what I was doing in the Pentagon car park

Fair question, haha.

I was always brought up to respect the police (the RUC as they were then).

I was brought up with a few of them in the family, then a lot more of my generation joined them. I saw/heard a balance of strict professionalism and utter bigotry/cruelty/inhumanity. Aside from the sectarianism you mention, there were the guys who, on a slow night, would round up any rough sleepers and dump them in another town for a laugh. The guys who would trash the homes of any Indians they were investigating 'because they stink of curry and deserve it'. My brother delighting when he got out of cop school when he found out that they don't really have to do all the de-escalation and low impact physical arrest training, 'because we just kick their shit in'.

More pertinently, my uncle, who was quite high up, asking me when I went to university in England, 'How do you deal with all the blacks? All the senior English guys I meet at conferences tell me they're the problem'.

Mum's Dad was pretty senior in the TA and my Mum's Mum was an orangewoman. Her sister was RUC reserves or specials or whatever they were called so there was nothing bad said about them in my family. Like I said, I get literal shudders when I think about how I used to think life was like when I lived in NI.

Later in life, my cousin married a guy who used to be in TSG (or whatever the RUC used to call them, I just knew them as riot cops). He said their land rover would just roll into whatever was going on, they'd pile out, hammer the shit out of whoever was with reach, grab a few, jump back into the land rover and fuck off before the tyres caught fire. He said he was told that if the land rover stopped and the doors opened, anyone with arm's reach was fair game. He drives a private ambulance now.

He said their land rover would just roll into whatever was going on, they'd pile out, hammer the shit out of whoever was with reach, grab a few, jump back into the land rover and fuck off before the tyres caught fire. He said he was told that if the land rover stopped and the doors opened, anyone with arm's reach was fair game.

Yeah, my bro was in them as well, and that was the approach. Interestingly, when bodycams were brought in, there was an internal uproar because this would end such fun and games. But it forced them to do the job properly, they weren't inundated with police brutality complaints, and community relations actually improved - because they were laying off on the brutality, who'd've thunk it?

Also, I was told the worst nights weren't the riots - it was when they had big club nights in the Odyssey, and they had to try to deal with young, 'roided-up, off their faces gym bunnies who wanted to fight the world.

I've just seen a report that Mr Kaba was a core gang member and had been involved in a shooting of a rival days earlier. So perhaps the police had a bit more crucial decision making pieces of intelligence that we don't.

Cool let's just shoot all suspected gang members in the head at close range then

Ignore, serves me right for commenting at work

If you multiply the UK numbers by that it's pretty similar to USA

You might want to double check the maths on that one.

Edit: ah, didn't clock the US numbers was just for shootings, not total fatalities.

The answers to "did he deserve to get shot" and "did the officer murder him or otherwise act incorrectly" don't have to be the same though.

This is the key thing a lot of folks are missing and/or arguing against strawmen (beit knowingly or unknowingly).

I don't think anyone who's bringing up the wider criminal context is saying that alone is the deciding factor. But it makes a difference vs say an escaped fraudster known to have type 1 diabetes.

Agreed, but not loving all the suicide/death links related to custody.

I served on the Coroner's court years ago, one guy died due to a head injury. PSNI did no pick up on concussion (he started vomiting) as he was also drunk.

Specialists agreed he would have probably died no matter what. Still, bit shitshow and the psni/hospital/prison all got told off, as there had been a huge investigation before.

Be interesting to see a breakdown.

Is that what you think I meant?

Yep, this was one of the worst outcomes for everyone involved. But there might be other reasons for him trying to break through a police block in an suv other than the one you suggested.

Either way it’s terrible for him, his family and the police who then had to make such a decision, whether they were right or wrong.

I don't think the arresting police knew who he was or his suspected involvement in the shooting in Hackney, so again, it is non pertinent.

I think justifying a copper taking a literal kill shot is dangerous ground.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/22/chris-kaba-shot-man-in-club-and-was-alleged-core-member-of-london-gang .

Blake, at the point he pulled the trigger on 5 September 2022, did not know these details and did not know who was in the Audi Q8, which police believed was linked to a firearms incident the night before.

Would you suggest a slightly wound shot or maybe a mildly inconvenience one?
Despite what they show in the movies you if you have reached the shooting stage every shot is a “literal kill shot”