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That's traumatic just to read. Must have been agonising.

HTFU!

More seriously. Fucking hell mate. That is WW1 levels of trauma.

You win a Sean Kelly hardman award for sure.

How relevant is it that he’s black?

Would it say he was white if he was white?

The Met Police is institutionally racist and disproportionately kills young black men. That’s why it’s relevant.

I think there is a strong case to be made that the reason why Chris Kaba didn’t want to stop is because he feared for his life.

Worth mentioning another pertinent factor here.

A jury of twelve of our peers, people just like us, after hearing arguments from all sides and from experts, in minute detail, over a number of days (equating to tens if not hundreds of hours) has come to this conclusion.

We cannot expect a similar level of considered and supported conclusion to be drawn by us after reading / viewing some media reports and bringing our world views and experience to bear on an internet forum.

We are very fortunate to have one of the best judicial systems in the world here in the UK. We should give it the respect it deserves.

A very strong case. Which is a huge problem in itself because - despite Chris Kaba’s skin colour - UK police don’t shoot unless there’s a clear and present threat to life. Turning off the ignition and stepping out of the car wouldn’t have constituted such a thing.

The Met Police certainly has a reputation!

Bloody hell, Nick!

I'm not convinced this case shows the best of the British justice system. An unarmed man was shot and killed by a policeman and, yet again, the latter is not held accountable for his actions.

Turning off the ignition and stepping out of the car wouldn’t have constituted such a thing.

I don't think we can say that with any level of confidence that it would have de-escalated the situation, nor that Chris Kaba wouldn't have still been shot.

Indeed we do, but that's not to say that miscarriages of justice don't happen. I'm not suggesting that this is the case this time btw as I don't know the full facts.

Incidentally, I have served on a jury for 3 cases. One was for assault (kicked a man in the head who was already down and then assaulted a police officer). All caught very clearly on CCTV. He was convicted and went to jail. Even with all the evidence against him, it was astounding that in first deliberations there were a few on the jury who wanted to clear him, for no real apparent reason! Tbh, when I saw the guys face when he was told he was being jailed, I felt really fucking bad.

The second was a case where police stopped a car and found loads of stolen goods in the back. The supposed reason for the search however was that the officers thought they could smell cannabis. It was pretty obvious that they had racially profiled him for the stop and then lied about the cannabis smell to start the search. However, 3 days in the defendant changed his plea to guilty.

Third case, a guy was accused of tossing himself off in his car outside a catholic girls school. There were 3 witnesses, all school girls. The first 2 have almost word for word the same account and were clearly enjoying their time in the limelight. The third witness took the stand and basically said it didn't happen. The case fell apart at that point and he was found not guilty. Still ruined his life I imagine as his name and photo had already been printed in the local paper. This was the second time it had been to court. The case fell apart the first time for some reason and the paper was allowed to publish the story, but then somehow it came back to court.

I've since got selected again for jury duty, but had to decline due to medical reasons and as I had done it already they let me off. Otherwise I would have done it for sure.

not convinced this case shows the best of the British justice system

My point is, that unless you were in the trial or have closely read the full transcript, I don't see how you can make that assesment.

the latter is not held accountable for his actions.

Being charged and taken to trial is quite literally being held accountable.

He would appear to be unsuitable to be a firearms officer, yet has been allowed to return to duty. We can argue all day if he should've been convicted of murder, but I believe armed officers should be held to very high standards by the Met first and foremost, and, once again, there have been clear failures of their procedures.

Why do you say he is unsuitable?

He was faced with a lethal threat (an Audi Q8) and fired one aimed shot.

Seems ok to me.

Do you think a giant SUV being driven that way isn’t a threat to life?

All going a bit Judge Dredd in here.

The car was contained when the shot was fired.

I think we can say that, in the UK, if you're asked to stop your vehicle and step out, you won't then be executed.

The Met Police force is broken, but this still isn't the USA.

It's a shame those first two school girls are too old to be trialled for perverting the course of justice. That poor bloke.

This is where Germany has it right - kids too young to be be trialled, their parents go to court charged with the same offence.

And I know you can't say much, but how could your fellow jurors have any doubt if the first case was as clear as you say? Mind blowing.

He was faced with a lethal threat (an Audi Q8) and fired one aimed shot.

The chance to indiscriminately execute Audi drivers..... the fever dream of most militant cyclists.

Watched an episode of Late SHow Jon Oliver? whatsit last night which was all about vehicle stop and search in the USA. Basically used for fishing for crimes, generally racist "the black areas are where we deploy our cars". Not followed this UK thing at all, just interesting to see what Ice T was rapping about 30 years ago is basically written in their legislation.

the fever dream of most militant cyclists.

Not even a fever dream. Imagine how much safer the roads would be...

I am no fan of plod, nor am I racist. It has been accepted that the police are racist. However, in this particular case perhaps the racism angle could be ignored based on the evidence.

We have a resident expert on armed police procedure, @Constable_Savage, who even took his forum name from a sketch about a racist cop. I would value his opinion.

Just as a thought, had this been been the US of A, every cop present would probably have emptied their magazine.

I think we can say that, in the UK, if you're asked to stop your vehicle and step out, you won't then be executed.

But you can be executed for travelling on the tube so nothing would surprise me.