Owning your own home

I don't disagree: the floor in the hallway and the back garden are the only bits I wouldn't touch [any time soon].

The rest is dire.

Woo! You have a spare £500k down there already?!

Not down the back of the sofa, but that's roughly the equity I have in the property that is currently home to my sofa.

That is an insane amount of money for that house

As others have said, welcome to London, and the leafy suburbs of London. It'd probably be an extra £1m on top of that if it was in a variety of different locations nearby (Barnes, Fulham, Wimbledon Village, etc).

...Exploding head emoji

The kitchen obviously isn't a selling point. Lack of photos makes you wonder how bad it actually is.

We are considering buying a really nice upstairs flat built in 1964. You can see the EPC rating for the property here: https://find-energy-certificate.service.gov.uk/energy-certificate/0370-2854-8410-2224-2255

The property listing, including floorplan, is here: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/153370358#/?channel=RES_BUY

It is unlikely that I will be able to install any type wet central heating system.

Likewise, externally mounted heat pumps will almost certainly not be possible due to leaseholder agreements (that may not be strictly true but I think it's best to continue with the assumption it won't be possible).

As such, this locks us into installing a new electric-based heating system.

I envisage (however please suggest any alternatives) running a central hot water boiler for the bathroom and kitchen paired with modern electric heaters. I am not fussy – nor do I have the expertise to comment on the optimal option! – about the technology used for the heaters.

I am also willing to invest in a smart home system (this is the part I'm most excited by), most likely controlled by Home Assistant. I won't go into too much detail as it's beyond the scope of this post but I anticipate using temperature sensors and HA's predictive weather reporting capability to control the system.

The house has good double glazing but, as highlighted in the EPC report, it's not terribly well insulated elsewhere. I may be able to insulate the roof internally using foam-backed panels and the floor with something similar, but additional improvements are unlikely.

Considering all of this and the EPC report, can I get a vibe check on:

• Is this going to cost an absolute bomb to heat? It's a small-ish property and tech has moved on. Is it really going to be ruinous?
  
• According to the EPC reports, at least one other property on the block has installed a gas boiler (though I couldn't see a flue anywhere). Would this be worth considering? I worry seeking agreement from the other leaseholders (required due to the management structure of this property) could be difficult/impossible
  
  

To provide context, we really like this property – it's the right size for us, has a sizable garage and is in a great part of town, so it's a really difficult decision.

As a total aside, if leaseholder reforms are brought in, I hope the right to insulate and heat your home with modern tech is made part of it. It seems mad that I even have to consider installing a sub-optimal system, but there you go

Gut reaction is it looks like it has limited insulation and thermal mass. Also sounds like the leaseholder stuff would be a pain from what you describe. And it's not very big for the money (or is Bristol just a total shitshow market?)

Are you sure you're not being overly swayed by the garage? (understandable)

Find another place.

The leaseholder stuff may not be a pain. It's a residents-owned management company, which should be less nightmarish than a commercial management company. However, it's best to err on the side of 'nightmare' and assume the worst IMO.

Re price, it's pretty cheap for what it is in Bristol! Such is the way of things but, at least we've been able to save enough to even consider buying somewhere (which we're having to do because our landlord is turfing us out in February...).

Landlord stuff is a pain, I get that. Sorry to hear it.

But this place probably needs completely gutting. New insulation everywhere, new bathroom, new kitchen. New heating system. And it looks like it's clad in plastic imitation wood.

You could get something bigger and in better condition for that money right in the centre of Edinburgh. I'm shocked that Bristol is so much more expensive. Granted I don't know the market down there.

Any scope to move slightly out of town?

I will add that getting a garage in my recent move was a game changer...

As a couple who have had to flee south from Edinburgh (home) for careers, I don't want to hear what you have!

Sage advice. The gutting and refitting doesn't phase us as a) the return on effort could be good when we move back north and b) I have a retired cabinet maker father who's gunning to do a place up with me.

Moving out of town would be an option but living in England is bad enough without, at least, enjoying the urbane central Bristol life haha.

If the heating and insulation situation were better, it would be a no-brainer, but I think we'll swerve on this and go for something a bit less perilous.

You don't need to move out of town to get far better value than Cotham. For non Bristolians, it's the equivalent of something like Marylebone High Street.

Do you know Cotham/Kingsdown? If you're not a student or working at the hospital, I wouldn't want to live there. As nice as the restaurants are.

Sorry if I have missed it, but how do the current owners heat the property?

It’s currently heated by storage heaters.

@lemonade – that’s a bit of an exaggeration. This is significantly cheaper than many equivalent places we’ve looked at in other parts of town (largely due to its suboptimal heating situation, hence my question). And as it happens, it works well for where we work and personal lives etc. Regardless, my question was about a heating system – not where we’re looking to buy ✌️

Can you find out what the bills of the current owners look like and their energy usage? Depending on how you use the flat you might be able to time the electric heaters to come on in line with a low cost specific time tariff like Octopus cosy.

Resistive heating ‘tech’ hasn’t moved on in 200+ years; it can only ever be ~100% efficient, and will be ruinously expensive to run.

It’s rare that all pathways to ASHP are totally blocked. My mum lives in a tiny flat in Limehouse that came with electric resistive heaters, and despite it technically contravening her leasehold, she recently had a very discreet air-to-air ASHP system fitted (commonly known as ‘aircon’) for relatively peanuts (under £2K complete without any kind of grant) which works fabulously, is more efficient than a common air-to-water heat pump system, and does cooling in summer.

The external unit is very small and quiet, her yearly bill is ~£800.

I’d be less worried about it than everyone else seems to be.

1) insulate roof 2) replace current storage heaters with better ones [you can get the best Dimplex smart wifi storage heaters second hand for not too much if you keep your eyes peeled on eBay/fb marketplace etc be]

It’s in a great location, near town with lots of stuff happening.

I don’t like leasehold but I you might be ok with that. Also it has no parking except in the garage, and we all know that garages are for bike/other mechanicking and projects not car storage.

Or what he ^^ said. Sneaky air pump on the roof.

Sneaky air pump on the roof is deeply appealing, particularly with a system like this (which I assume is very similar to what's being recommended): https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/iqool-5ms12k12k12k12k12k/electriq-iqool5ms12k12k12k12k12k-air-conditioner

We will go away, have a think and see if we can speak to neighbours – gauge the vibe. Thanks all.

had to flee south from Edinburgh

Yeah, sorry to remind of reality and all that. It was only my adopted home but when I had to head South for work it was sad times. Moving back was a great decision. Albeit I live outside of town now. Anyway, I guess what I was getting at is it seems the Bristol market is not great compared to other 'expensive' places.

I have a retired cabinet maker father who's gunning to do a place up with me

Cool. Similarly I have a father-in-law of the same trade (well, he is adamant that he's more of a furniture maker than a cabinet maker - if you know you know etc) who has helped me do a few bits here and there over the years. It's fun, definitely pursue this if you're keen.

If the heating and insulation situation were better

I'm biased really because I personally like buildings with thermal mass, i.e. usually pre 1930s (ish). I fear that 1960s stuff can be akin to living in a static caravan. It was also a period of rapid post-war construction; some stuff made then is good and some isn't. The aesthetic isn't for me either, but obviously that's personal. More importantly I think there are better vessels into which one's effort can be poured, even if it's slim pickings.

insulate roof

Probably fair enough on the improved storage heaters. But roof improvements on a 60-year-old flat roof could be a big can of worms technically and politically. Or maybe it's fine, but I'd swerve it.

For 3 million quid up here you are getting a mansion, london is mental money now.

Sorry if that came across overly negative. What I was trying to get at was more in response to others saying that it seemed expensive, and then you talking about moving out of town, that this is almost as premium an area as you can find in Bristol. Obviously you know if that's what you want.

A few observations.
The great thing about those kind of properties are they are a box that is very easy to remodel inside if you see fit.
Re the heating you will either need to fit Quantum storage heaters which are a massive improvement over the old tech as they do not leak heat and are run by a timer/computer which charges up based on you being ‘in all day’ or ‘out all day’ and the ambient temperature. The heat is then released when you want it with a low speed fan. I fitted them in my old flat and the bills stayed the same but I was warm when I wanted to be instead of the flat being like in an oven in the morning but freezing in the evening as all the heat had leaked out. Not sure you can even buy old style heaters as you have to fit Euro10 compliant ones now.
Looking at the cladding I would imagine there is just a small amount of insulation behind and possibly just a single skin of brick or even just stud work, if it was mine I would insulate internally and get the best glazing I could afford (triple or at least Low-E ) at least you are not having to deal with moisture transfer like a Victorian property so more insulation options for the panels below the glazing.
Having a floor below and neighbours means it’s always 13° plus the other side of those walls which helps as less external walls and freezing temps.
Would have a poke around on another viewing and see if it’s a warm roof with a void, how wide those panels are below the windows (they might even be spandrel panels with cladding over the top) and if you can insulate the ceiling? The service charge documents or those of the limited co management might show when the flat roofs were done and if they added insulation at any time, it’s always good to try and speak to a resident and find the details of the person who’s most active with the management as they will be able to answer a lot of questions regarding what work was done and to what spec, it looks like they were all re clad recently so may have better insulation then when built.
You can also scope out the possibility of a heat pump and if anyone else has enquired.
You shouldn’t have to wait for leasehold reform to insulate as unless there is a clause to prohibit that in the lease they can’t stop you. Obviously you can’t alter the external features.
I wouldn’t be put off as there are lots of plus points over a shitty built Victorian terrace with mud under the floorboards and damp everywhere.

This is a hugely helpful reply (maybe just because it’s what I want to hear, haha).

We currently live in a damp, shite Victorian terrace and have zero interest in buying one having seen the horrors our landlord uncovered when re-rendering the front (serves him right).

We’re viewing another property fairly close by, so will be a brave boy and chap on the neighbours doors later.

@lemonade: no bother, it’s just bikes and houses innit.

would recommend diykitchens over howdens. Way cheaper and unit quality better (IMO). You have to do the design yourself but the planner is pretty intuitive and you can crib from whatever Howdens pull together for you, too.