Which Groupset?

You do get a whole wheelset though.

Considering a front mech is the cheapest part of a groupset, it's a very expensive alternative.

No you don’t. That’s the upgrade cost.

That thing shifts so good though. I'd love to have a proper sincro shifting setup with that, you'll never worry about the front der shifting at the wrong time

So it is.

But can you really put a price on innovation.

Im just not sure what ‘problem’ it has solved.

Parts of the cycling industry seem to despise the idea of the front mech but (mud and a few watts of drag aside) it has always worked fine.

Hub gearing has been around forever no?

I agree it's not really solving a problem but one less derailleur to setup maintain etc etc is a nice refinement, like going from 10-11 speed.

Im just not sure what ‘problem’ it has solved.

The chain sometimes losing its shit when shifted at each end? A double shift would be a lot more reliable.

And the RD doesn't have to take up as much slack since it's just 1x at the front. You can also shift it under full power. I think it'll shift happy under up to 1500w.
All the advantages of 1x but with the extra range of 2x and without the downsides of 2x

Maybe not all the advantages of 1x as I suppose it is heavier. It's still nice to use

One downside is that you're a lot more limited in the wheels you can use.

Also once the shifting can be integrated as part of a electric groupset instead of having it's own separate satellite shifter that will make things a lot neater.

In Ridley it came plugged at the Di2 front shifter. It wasn't integrated as you couldn't see it in the shimano app but worked as a button. Anyone handy with electronics could do it.
Not sure if that's possible with SRAM or 12 speed shimano, possibly not

I think it'll shift happy under up to 1500w

You weren't able to shift mid-sprint then

They're probably just counting on being purchased by SRAM at some point.

Certainly makes sense given SRAM's inability to make a good front mech but it also feels like if it was going to happen it would have done by now.

"All the advantages of 1x but with the extra range of 2x and without the downsides of 2x"

Sounds good but you dropped some of these:
Higher cost
New wheels or rebuild required
Limited support and maintenance

Have any of these weird Alt Drivetrains ever taken off? Having to send my frame/hub/crankset/whatever back to Germany/Belgium/USA while I'm sat in Morocco for 3 months never seems that appealing.

13 speed may potentially kill the front derailleur anyways

14 speed if you buy the new Wheeltop gravel groupset*

*and have made your own 14 speed cassette

They have partnered with TRP and are releasing a Groupset

https://trpcycling.com/pages/vistar-powershift

I was going to say it's a good looking groupset.

But then I saw the rd

Gee, using extra material to lower the parallelogram like that seems like an odd design choice...

Brand differentiation, or avoiding patents, maybe? The bottom knuckle doesn't look super terrible, but the huge dangle off the mounting bolt is a shocker.

I like the extra buttons at the top of the lever though. I wonder how much time that hood spent folded over to pick up those wrinkles...?

Interesting!

14 speed

I realise there's a bit more OLD now that everything is disc, but surely chains and cog spacing have gotten about as narrow as they can go? And IME&O, 11s/130mm dish is maxxed out.

There has to be a ceiling to this. And nobody ever talks about ratio spacing; aside from 10t and 9t being stupid because chordal action starts kicking in at 11t (the cog effectively being more of a polygon than a circle), the % jumps start getting higher than you'd want at speed between 13-12t.

What would a drivetrain look like if it was designed with the aim of delivering (within reason) more optimal ratios, without making dumb compromises?

What would a drivetrain look like if it was designed with the aim of delivering (within reason) more optimal ratios, without making dumb compromises?

Sounds like you've spotted an opportunity for a totally new standard for 2026.

It's ugly but IMO the new Campag and SRAM wireless ones still look worse