Which Groupset?

Thanks @xDOMx and @Netakure

I have spotted a decent one on eBay for £300, so will ponder that route.

My gut tells me to upgrade though. I’ll also be able to get maybe £300-£350 for the remaining bits of my 11 speed group to help offset the cost. I’ll move over to the groupset thread to work out exactly what’s involved in a move to 12 speed, because if that means I can no longer use my power meter then that might make the decision for me.

Ha - this is the groupset thread! Thought it was the electronic one

For what it’s worth, I’m waiting for new SRAM Red AXS as we speak and the older groupset will likely be sold as a set.

The reason being that these parts are getting rarer and rarer (not unlike Red 22, which is still my favourite groupset).

Decided to upgrade. Managed to piece together a full Force AXS group - shifters, FD, RD (plus cassette and chain) for a shade over £800. Will probably have to buy new 12 speed rings for the P2Max, but the current pair are worn anyway so that’s all good.
If I can sell off my working Red etap 11 speed bits for £300 or so then I think this should only have cost around £500-600 total.

I appreciate the help

Boooooo.

Drill it, drill it, drill it.

No, both derailleurs have to be newer AXS.

on the chainring point, I'd not go out and buy chainrings straight away, try them with flat top chain first or better still just use a non flat top chain...they will probably be fine till they actually wear out.

Also there is Rival which should be cheaper and exactly same performance as Force. Although if you are happy with the aesthetics with the old Force then it's bound to be cheaper still.

I’ve gone for a shimano 12 speed chain and cassette, so hopefully that’ll be fine with the current chain rings.

both derailleurs have to be newer AXS

I have bought AXS front and rear mechs so it’s academic now, but out of interest what’s the reason for not being able to use the old red etap front? I’m sure I’ve read that AXS is backwards compatible with 11sp? Or is it that the mech won’t shift a 12 speed chain well?

dm me with details of working etap plz

after eight faithful years service my etap 11 speed rear mech appears to have died.

Nothing to lose by having a squiz inside it. You never know, there's a bee's dick of a chance it's fixable.

It's confusing.... basically the original 12 spd AXS levers will work but not the newer ones. So if you are buying new Force which I assumed you were then they won't shift 11spd derailleurs, but the old D1 will.

Anyone have experience with BSA30 bottom brackets (bsa screw in fitment, but 30mm axle)? Anything to worry about?

I'd like to fit a rotor 3d30 crank to a sl3 tarmac, so would swap the standard shimano bb for a bsa30 (probably rotor as the other options seem expensive). There's less room for the thread, and maybe the bearings are a bit smaller than a standard 24mm bb, but Im guessing it make no difference in practise?

I had praxis and rotor BSA30 in the past. Nothing better or worse than BSA24, but you'll probably need to use some spacers to get the chainline right.

My new Force eTap AXS gear set turned up yesterday, so I’ll be installing it shortly. I’m still slightly unclear on whether my plan of running a shimano 12 speed cassette and chain will cause any issues though? Can anyone comment?

The full mixed setup is -
Praxis 11 speed chainrings
Force eTap AXS 12 speed derailleurs (rear is 36t compatible)
Shimano 12 speed cassette (11-36)
Shimano 12 speed chain

Thanks

I thought SRAM 12 speed was incompatible with Shimano 12 speed?

Your 11 speed chainrings likely won’t work with a 12 speed chain either. I’ve just encountered this issue and had to get a new, 12 speed specific, chain ring.

Yes. I ran Rotor P2M for years (it's now in my partners road bike).

Couple of things: bearings are smaller and more expensive, Di2 wiring doesn't have a lot of space.

I wore out quite a few so it was a bit spendy. I probably still have some BBs for this setup at home somewhere you could probably use. In the end I paid extra for one of these https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Wheels-Manufacturing/Threaded-To-30mm-Angular-Bearing-Contact-Bottom-Bracket/EM1W which I couldn't use in my partner's bike so she's got even smaller bearings in some pressfit arrangement. I can't remember if we sold this BB or if it's still in a bag somewhere.

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I thought SRAM 12 speed was incompatible with Shimano 12 speed?

That’s not what I’ve read, however there’s a lot of conflicting chat out there. I’m hoping someone here has real world experience of this combo

Your 11 speed chainrings likely won’t work with a 12 speed chain either. I’ve just encountered this issue and had to get a new, 12 speed specific, chain ring.

Again, there’s conflicting experiences out there. But I’m less concerned about giving it a go as my 11 speed rings are already used, so worst case I just need to upgrade them. If the cassette and chain are wrong that’s a chunk of £££s down the drain.

Which bits?

I've run a SRAM AXS RD on my MTB without changing anything else (other than cable shifter obvs), ie. Shimano 12s chain and chainring.

I’ve only got Shimano 12 speed, so no real world experience.

I have just tried to use a (slightly) worn 11-speed chainring with a 12-speed chain and it was a non-starter. The chain will only sit on top of the teeth and won’t properly engage.

I have just tried to use a (slightly) worn 11-speed chainring with a 12-speed chain and it was a non-starter. The chain will only sit on top of the teeth and won’t properly engage

I might grab a new set of 12 speed rings then in case. I can always return them if mine work ok.

From a Shimano only standpoint, it's my understanding that 12-speed chainrings will work with an 11-speed chain but not the other way round, no? Hence why during the the big crankset recall Shimano are replacing faulty 11-speed cranksets with 12-speed 8100 group cranksets. Doesn't answer your question about the eTap derailleurs though @TTM but I'm inclined to agree that 11-speed chainrings won't work with a 12-speed chain.

I’ve just laid the 12 speed chain on the 11 speed rings and I’m not seeing the same issue @andyp was having. The chain appears to engage fully. It’s not setup properly yet obviously, but I can’t see the chainrings will be an issue

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That’s good. Mine is a 1x setup so it’s likely related to the wide/narrow chainring.

That makes sense

Thanks

Yes, I’m a bit worried about the bearings. I tried a normal 24mm rotor bb years ago and it lasted 10 minutes, so don’t really like the thought of one with smaller bearings, nor do I like the thought of spending £100 on a bottom bracket.

I’d be interested if you have a job lot of bsa30 bbs sitting around that you’d offload at less than new prices!

Really I want a 3d24 but they’re impossible to find (bit of a story - I have a 3d24 with q-rings and a pm Ive swapped between bikes for maybe 12 years. I’m tired of swapping, and don’t care about the pm so much, but still want q-rings. I’ve tried q-rings on a non rotor crank and the shifting was crap so inclined to stick with rotor. However you just can’t get a 3d24, but 3d30s are readily available)