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They seem indestructible, I’ve just been dragging them across Dartmoor granite and they look unmarked.
I don’t take them off the rack at all and are set up so they actually tighten on solidly. They are on an Ortlieb Quick Rack which comes off in a few seconds.I’m guessing by your username and location you are John red balloon ? I’m in Brixton Cycles Club and know Adrian etc.
Lomo 13l motorbike panniers strapped to an Ortlieb Quick Rack Light, no wobble or rattle but heavy.
Carradice on a bar bagman fouls the brifters slightly.
Decathlon stem bag seems as good as any and only £6.99.
Zefal frame bag which takes my tent poles and an Altura saddlebag.