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Education - well it’s free in this country

Schooling is free up until a certain point, and horribly underfunded, particularly in deprived areas. Education, especially as far as what's needed to help avoid a rise of the far right and the problems that go along with it, doesn't necessarily, and for some people can't, happen in schools.

In theory I agree with you, in practice it's the same as someone convicted of dangerous driving taking one of those road safety courses; a box they tick to get out of trouble.

For the higher end of the scale, a de-radicalisation program in prison may be helpful but these are not those people. I think an example will absolutely help here; people assumed they were untouchable.

Unless we’re talking at cross purposes?

The comment you first replied to was specifically about using the justice system for rehabilitation rather than revenge. If you believe in that at all (a thing that hasn't been tried nearly enough in this country and is constantly undermined by budget cuts), you really can't say "but only for the people I don't hate". In general, many people who would be suitable for the various approaches to rehabilitation are going to be people you don't like.

Britain loves punitive justice and has done very badly by it.

I mean in theory too. But 100s of hours of community service isn't just box ticking.

As someone else commented, the reasons for being there are varied and a custodial sentence is appropriate in many.

But people being evicted from home isn't going to help.

I don't (necessarily) agree with evictions but being there isn't the reason people are being put in prison; being there and rioting or inciting rioting online is.

I think there is a massive difference between being a ideologically driven (which is why terrorism charges haven't been seen yet) organiser and an ignorant and without hope individual venting your anger in a misguided way and punishment should be different. I think there is a third group who are wealthy and powerful individuals who are agitators and exploit the second group for thier own ends and so far, those individuals appear to be above the law unless they slip up on social media.

I also don't necessarily agree with evictions for racist rioters, but have to admit I do find it quite funny.

I hope they throw the book at this monster

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/10/tory-councillor-lucy-connolly-racial-hatred-charge-twitter/

Looking at that FT article - were the Tories parking asylum seekers in hotels in historically Labour-voting deprived urban areas just because it was cheap?

Yes

Why they chose to stop processing them and just let the backlog build and numbers needing accommodation grow might be a different question

I agree that these riots are the result of wider failures in society. From the riot videos, photos and mug shots, you see people who have been chewed up and spat out by neo-liberalism.

They have been led down the garden path by political rhetoric, and now feel that politicians don't do anything for them. Their analysis (that their problems are caused by immigrants) is wrong, but that doesn't mean they don't have problems.

Completely agree. As before, when people are desperate, they often don't dare attack those more powerful than them. Instead, they end up getting used by power to attack those less powerful than them, also deflecting the blame from bad government and powerful other interests. See attacks on just about every minority group ever; all this has worked a treat for thousands of years and will undoubtedly continue to work. Great political dreams are generally betrayed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baJ5LsCn358

We adopt political positions tribally, which applies to 'the left' just as much as to 'the right', thinking that just because positions appear to have been prefigured, they may also be consistent in their parts (which they are generally not), and of course they're often represented by sophistic demagogues.

Just oppress people so much that they can't think of any other outlet than a bit of a riot every ten years or so (whether 2011 or 2024), perhaps against other vulnerable people, then persecute them through increasingly near-universal surveillance and facial recognition technology (they may have innocently given up their data through Zoom in lockdown) while most likely the only 'economic' improvement a few of them may see is from 'trickle-down' through 'growth', demonstrating 'social mobility', while most will continue to feel abandoned by society.

All boilerplate truisms, really, but somehow they need to be repeated over and over.

Probably because associated grifters made a fortune from it, just another way of re-routing public money.

Just oppress people so much that they can't think of any other outlet than a bit of a riot every ten years or so (whether 2011 or 2024), perhaps against other vulnerable people, then persecute them

POSIWID in action

You know how those fruit loop Republicans in the US have taken to saying that the Democrats are actually working to destroy society?

That's what conservatives everywhere do, all the time since forever.

That's what conservatives everywhere do, all the time since forever.

Mmm, if you go back far enough they cared about society to the extent that they owned it, it was run for them and they wanted to keep it that way. Then there was a stretch where they were quite keen to preserve a notion of society that they viewed through rose-tinted glasses, generally based on a mythical idyllic past that never existed, either unable to see neglect and suffering, or seeing it as a necessary cost suffered by people who didn't count. Unpleasant as that was, the batshit "There is no such thing as society, only vampires and their families" nihilism thing is relatively new (and taking us back to pre-Victorian levels of misery if they get their way).

I think we should rehabilitate even the people I hate, but regrettably in some cases it’s an absolute waste of time.

Me too.

I have deleted my X account in the past week (too late, I know) and her tweets have been popping up in my feed for a few months now. Let me tell you, she is a despicable human being if we go by what she has written on Twitter (not including the tweet she’s in trouble for).

It will be delightful justice if she ends up doing porridge.

I know she has significant trauma due to a doctor misdiagnosing an issue in her child which caused the death of her son. To go from that to othering people to the level of being happy to see them be burned alive rather than to empathy for those people in hard situations is a little shocking to me.

She’s a prime candidate for rehabilitation.

would be fun to kick the racist rioters out and house some asylum seekers in their homes !

100% behind this approach.
No one should be homeless in 2024 but some folks need reminding a council house is a privilege. Seeing some of the arrest videos I’d be seeking evictions based on how poorly they treat the properties.

a council house is a privilege

Only because we don't have enough stock. Public housing should be available to all, prioritised on need but not restricted.

Even if we had enough council housing for every man, woman and child it should be revoked for serious crimes.

Unpopular opinion- a modernised form of workhouse(with full education, rehabilitation and work/social training facilities) should be introduced for persistent low-level offenders.
Keep them busy during the day, get some of the grotty jobs like litter picking on motorway junctions dealt with and hopefully instill some work ethic in those that have been left behind.
A short stint in somewhere like that would have been very beneficial to me in my early 20s.

modernised form of workhouse

Sounds like prison.

Nah, focus on training/education, not punishment.
I know it’s a fucking fine line and would probably be completely impossible to implement in a way not open to abuse(from both sides), but feel a middle-ground opportunity for some people that doesn’t result in them getting a criminal record/locked up but a real last-chance saloon could be beneficial in a lot of cases.