General Election 2024

One week left, our Nige shaking it up, man of the people, banana milkshakes all round.

I have been challenged to go line by line through the Reform manifesto showing which items are explicitly far right.

Which sounds fascinating but I’m riding my bike currently.

Well, you're using your time much better. It's completely pointless to discuss ideology with any of these 'parties', whether that's 'Reform' or any others in other countries. They want you to discuss it with them, mainly to distract from the fact they're just working on behalf of a power block, in the case of European parties, mainly to weaken Europe. Their ideology isn't important to them, they just use it to drive wedges into political discourse.

Needless to say, owing to decades of deeply unjust politics, most countries in Europe are easily subverted, as these hostile parties find it easy to convince desperate people, in a similar way to how Trump had poor and disadvantaged voters, because he had given them the idea that he would do something for them. It was this that really got him across the line electorally in 2016. Whether people will fall for it again is anyone's guess, but obviously the usual nonsense about trickle-down from 'growth' (wrongly measured) changes nothing materially.

I find the pile on, on someone saying they consider reform an option slightly odd and does show how heavily the demographic of the forum is skewed (which is fine but people should deluded themselves thier is a mix of voices). I get the bashing of Tice and Farage as they are a negative influence on politics in my opinion but if you are socially and fiscally conservative and don't like FPTP, who else should you vote for?

Seems strong centrist dad vibes to oppose everything that challenges the status quo and keeps us locked in a two party system that isn't working

I'm surprised so many of the political compasses didn't come out more authoritarian as a lot of people seem to be against people having views different from thiers

As if they put it in their manifesto.
you just need to actually listen to what Farage has said down the years and look at who they sign up as candidates.

Referring to 21C Tories and Reform UK as socially conservative is massively undercooking it.

Personally it’s because the headline policies from both parties are performative cruelty. For anyone who isn’t heavily into the details on politics, these will be the policies they’re ok with.

Maybe if there’s other more nuanced policies ok housing or healthcare that someone could point as being the reason they’d chose reform or the tories then people would be less inclined to ridicule.

challenges the status quo

Reform voters think that Farage and Tice are anti-establishment. In fact they are as establishment as its possible to be

I'm surprised so many of the political compasses didn't come out more authoritarian as a lot of people seem to be against people having views different from thiers

I was disappointed that they all came out similar.

Can hear a resounding echo bouncing from wall to lufgus wall frowning out any external sound.

Young Gren should be welcomed and challenged

'We' challenged the status quo in 2016. Went well didn't it?

You are identifying an issue- the lack of a centre right. In answer to your question of who to vote for who would be traditionally small c conservative the closest answer is the Lib Dem’s. Voting for the tories or Reform isn’t a vote for the centre, no matter what Andrew Neill et al pretend.

But- and this is I think key - as long as we let people maintain the fiction that the current Tory party are centre right the longer it will be before we actually see a party comfortably occupy that space.

I asked a genuine question to Young Gren and part of the response was whether I was clever enough/old enough to vote which hardly moves a discussion in a positive direction

Terry's was also based in York (although unfortunately not anymore).

It's not Terry's - it's mine.

As I said earlier, I welcome other voices. But to vote for Reform in order to shake things up as a protest vote is to a) ignore all that they stand for and b) exactly what fucked us over with Brexit. Which is, of course, what Farage wants. They have no policies outside of immigration, no experience or even desire to actually run the country properly, they just want to continue the (so far ridiculously successful) pull of the country to the right (while riding the personal gravy trains).
However, politics does need re-setting, in particular after the last 14 years. I'd be more than happy to get rid of FPTP, reform the Lords and if that means a few Farage types as MPs it also means more Greens etc as a balance. I can understand why someone might want to register a vote to move in that direction even though personally I find it abhorrent to give that vote to Farage.

Tbh hadn't heard all of these and assumed that bar anti-woke universities and immigration there wouldn't be anything obviously right wing.

ChatGPT

Summarise the key points in reform party's manifesto / contract
ChatGPT

Searched 5 sites

The Reform Party's 2024 manifesto outlines a series of ambitious and sometimes controversial policies across several key areas:

Education
Patriotic Curriculum: Reform UK aims to introduce a curriculum that emphasizes British heritage, ensuring balanced teaching on topics like imperialism and slavery by including non-European perspectives.

Transgender Policies: They plan to ban what they term "transgender ideology" in schools, including gender questioning and social transitioning, and mandate informing parents of children under 16 about significant life decisions​ (Schools Week)​​ (Deryn Manifesto)​.

University Reform: The party intends to restrict undergraduate numbers and offer two-year degree options, focusing on improving course quality and reducing student debt​ (Schools Week)​.
Policing and Justice

Zero Tolerance Policing: This includes harsher penalties for violent crimes and substantial increases in stop-and-search operations to deter knife crime.

Sentencing Reform: They propose automatic life sentences for repeat violent offenders and increased capacity in prisons, including the use of disused military bases​ (CAABU)​.

Common Sense Policing: Scrapping diversity and inclusion roles to focus solely on crime prevention and public service, with a strong preference for recruiting ex-military personnel into the police force​ (CAABU)​.

Immigration and National Identity
Immigration Control: Reform UK aims to significantly reduce immigration, citing strain on national resources and the need to prioritize British citizens for jobs and social services.

Cultural Preservation: They advocate for policies that defend and promote British culture and heritage, opposing what they describe as "woke" ideologies in public institutions​ (Benefits and Work)​​ (CAABU)​.
Defence

Increased Spending: The party plans to boost defense spending to 3% of GDP over six years, aiming to expand and better equip the armed forces.

Veterans' Affairs: They propose a new department dedicated to veterans' welfare, ensuring better support and resources for those who have served in the military​ (CAABU)​.

Economic Policies
Tax Cuts and Spending: Reform UK plans to fund their policies by cutting foreign aid, reducing energy tax subsidies, and making savings in government departments. They aim to stimulate the economy through tax reliefs and incentivizing private education​ (Schools Week)​​ (Deryn Manifesto)​.

These points represent the key aspects of the Reform Party's manifesto, reflecting their focus on national pride, law and order, and immigration control.

the lack of a centre right

Depends if you see Starmer Labour as centre right.

The gren is correct to highlight a disconnect between politics and people. The biggest cheers last night was some chap saying Sunak and Starmer were both useless.

The idea that the party that took on the National Trust is still center right is laughable.

I don't doubt that the hard right has an out sized amount of coverage but the party of Major or Cameron, they are not!

This line feels like it's straight from Rupert Murdoch. The idea that the centre is zero regulation and being mean to foreigners is the middle ground.

their focus on national pride, law and order, and immigration control

Erm, no thanks.

There's a string of false equivalences here.

to oppose everything that challenges the status quo and keeps us locked in a two party system that isn't working

Reform UK isn't "everything that challenges the status quo". Opposing it doesn't even mean opposing its entire manifesto; if somebody finds its anti-immigrant and anti-"woke" culture war policies repellent, Reform UK's position on reforming the House of Lords is irrelevant.

a lot of people seem to be against people having views different from thiers

Alternatively,a lot of people with a range of views of their own are unified in objecting to one specific viewpoint, because it's repellent enough for a lot of people to be disgusted by it. A lot of people hating Reform UK's position isn't authoritarianism.

I get the bashing of Tice and Farage as they are a negative influence on politics

You can't separate Reform UK from them. It has one MP (and only that one for the last three months), so the words and antics of the leadership are most of what amounts to substance for the party.

^^ by which I mean if other things were a priority focus instead then at least two of these may well happen organically, and the third will always happen regardless.

Love that the first one Chatgpt lists is "Patriotic Curriculum". Straight out of Putin's playbook.

I can't find a link to a story because they're drowned out by the more recent ones. But I remember what could have been 10yrs ago now Russia changing their history curriculum to reflect a more positive interpretation of Russia's past.

That reminds me of the pediatrician who was hounded for being a peado. Estate life....

If anyone can work out WTF this attack ad (?) on Angela Rayner is trying to convey please could you cc. CCHQ into your response

https://x.com/Conservatives/status/1806291306064339155

Its also worth noting that their manifesto represents a £150bn black hole in the nations finances.

Truss's budget was a mere £40bn in unfunded tax cuts.