General Election 2024

Colors, colors, colors.

They're going to drop a wealth tax once in aren't they? He made a big effort last night to not commit to there won't be a wealth tax

I thought the launch was OK and what he is selling realistic given how fucked everything is, he seems to be loosening up a little bit.

The drivers/potholes thing lost them my vote.

Is there any space where you're allowed to criticise Starmer or lament about their proposed policies for the next five years

Starmer thread.

So far you've offered criticism but not actual discussion yourself.

Is the problem that I'm not offering my own policies? Because what I'm critical of is that they're failing to present real policies on key issues.

I'll touch on HE because I'm a bit more caught up on details there.

What's wrong with their education policy?

I said universities which is different. But assuming that's what you mean by education, the answer is easy: they don't have one. Which is horrifying. Universities are a huge part of the UK economy (directly and indirectly) and one of the main contributors to UK soft power which, post Brexit in particular, is not something that should be ignored.

This is the entirety of what they say on the topic:

Labour will continue to support the aspiration of every person who meets the requirements and wants to go to university.

We recognise that UK higher education creates opportunity, is a world-leading sector in our economy, and supports local communities. To better integrate further and higher education, and ensure high-quality teaching, Labour’s post-16 skills strategy will set out the role for different providers, and how students can move between institutions, as well as strengthening regulation. We will act to improve access to universities and raise teaching standards.

The current higher education funding settlement does not work for the taxpayer, universities, staff, or students. Labour will act to create a secure future for higher education and the opportunities it creates across the UK. We will work with universities to deliver for students and our economy.

That's not a policy (and much of the manifesto reads like this).

THE has just said the "manifesto ducks detail in addressing sector funding crisis." The reality is that there will very likely be universities (plural) going bankrupt very shortly. These will mostly be regional universities who are major employers. Being regional also means that it will be very hard on the students caught up in such a situation. Not to mention the current funding model is pretty unfair to a lot of students.

At least the tories are honest about what they'll do: shut down programmes. Something I don't support, but you know where you stand. Labour are burying their heads in the sand. I mean, being political geniuses.

what was the misalignment (or alignment) like in 1997 with labour manifesto .. what they promised in the manifesto vs what they actually did?

http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml

Not sure if serious?

Local councils (plural) are going bankrupt now so HE is going to have to get in the queue

Local councils (plural) are going bankrupt now so HE is going to have to get in the queue

Not sure bankruptcies work on a queuing basis, but yeah, another terrifying outcome if we continue with the status quo.

Thankfully the manifesto does talk about this to some extent, with "multi-year funding settlements" (and some other bits and bobs) for LAs (no idea if what they say is meaningful or not).

Quite good on the whole.

But I guess it depends how you interpret some of them.

5 pledges

• cut class sizes to 30 or under for 5, 6 and 7 year-olds by using money from the assisted places scheme
  
• fast-track punishment for persistent young offenders by halving the time from arrest to sentencing
  
• cut NHS waiting lists by treating an extra 100,000 patients as a first step by releasing £100 million saved from NHS red tape
  
• get 250,000 under-25 year-olds off benefit and into work by using money from a windfall levy on the privatised utilities
  
• no rise in income tax rates, cut VAT on heating to 5 per cent and inflation and interest rates as low as possible
  

Biggest thing is that they made BoE interest rate independent in the first week but you wouldn't have known that was the plan from the manifesto. They kept things cagey.

Imo a big reason the manafesto is a bit broad/light on details is to create space.

From some polling Labour could have a super majority with the Lib dems in opposition. If that happens why restrict yourself?

Or because "they're going to win anyway" you have incredibly low turnout (undermines legitimatacy) with Labour edgelords not voting because they saw a pothole flyer, and Tory edgelords voting Reform as a protest vote. If that happens you're never going to be able to deliver.

Unfortunately this time round labour aren't being handed over a strong domestic economy during a period of global stability.

I heard from someone familiar with it that they haven't had time to work up some of the policy detail as the election has come much sooner than they expected. Not sure how much I believe that.

Probably equally true is that if they feel they can get elected without making any commitments, they will do that. I guess the advantage of being a front-runner is that you don't need to take any risks. Whether that is democratically desirable is another question.

From some polling Labour could have a super majority with the Lib dems in opposition. If that happens why restrict yourself?

This is the big prize on offer, if Labour are having to counter the Lib dems asking every week, why's brexit so shit, rather than Braverman and the Torys asking why we aren't drowning asylum seekers, the country will be improved massively.

Not sure how much I believe that.

Sounds like a line to me. No doubt producing this stuff isn't easy. But my guess is they've had a version of this since Dec.

🙏

Again not great for democracy though.

But who cares about that, as long as your guys have the power?

But my guess is they've had a version of this since Dec.

Definitely this. The only ones that this seems to have properly caught out is Reform because of the rush to fill their candidates list?

Age limits to the lord's and the nations 2nd chamber are interesting.
It could end up being like the US senate and with more power than the lords. It would change how legislation gets scrutinised though.

Still waiting to hear more about the rumour of labour planning to stuff the lord's to the gunnels. Maybe that's just based off the age limit thing and refilling seats. Will it be the govt. having power to fill seats at their own choice rather than some sort of democratic system?

THAT IS MY JOKE

Which is hilariously frightening....

I will take this for 20% a year more in school fees, it is still less than the 'Truss Increment' to my mortgage.

Is there any space where you're allowed to criticise Starmer or lament about their proposed policies for the next five years? I thought the centre was supposed to be where the "adults" do politics. But how can that be possible if we're not allowed to talk politics.

It all has a bit of the right complaining about remainers "talking down Britain."

Of course there is. But unless they are in power, they can't do shit. Criticise the fuck out of them when they are in power and actively not doing what you want.

But win first, meaningful changes later.

I suspect they are going to up taxes on businesses, reversing the corporate rate tax cuts and offshoring, Dutch sandwich shenanigans.

Now putting that in a manifesto to win? Not so easy.
When in power? Fuck yeah. Super majority. Fuck Starbucks, Amazon, etc...

The manifesto is more marketing brochure than blueprint. I think it should be treated as such.

no way this dimwit doesn’t launch an ill judged foreign intervention the first chance he gets to prove he’s ‘ard

But win first, meaningful changes later.

Faith based politicking.

shrug

Fair enough. Pees.