General Election 2024

Perhaps a better idea for the Tories would be National Service begins not at 18 but 68...I am 68 and would flatly refuse and rather go to prison...but it would shake up the Boomers...They want it...they can do It....Home Guard as it were...aka Dad's Army....What could possibly go wrong.

Genuine question, what’s the main bug bear with the national service (military or civilian duties) idea? Is it that it’s mandated? Or that it’s a restriction in personal choice? That there are better ways to engage and build community and skills for the greater good? Or something else entirely.

Northern European/Nordic countries seem to have this (possibly just civilian?), as do Switzerland, South Korea; the latter two whilst possibly still quite traditional in cultural norms/set up are also often seen as fairly well off re living standards and overall pleasantness to live.

Northern European countries have a very strong quid-pro-quo, in terms of social provision, which in the UK simply no longer exists - so, you do your indentured servitude at 18 and get absolutely nothing for it in return vs free education and an HE sector that's not about to collapse, childcare, healthcare that works, rivers not running with shit, etc etc.

South Korea has a very powerful motivation in North Korea being currently at war with it, I submit.

Genuine question, what’s the main bug bear with the national service

Personally speaking, I see 12 years of austerity as a thinly veiled transfer of wealth to the haves, and the idea that society should be rebuilt through the labour of a youth that has been ignored by politics, rather than for instance progressive taxation and other policies that make everyone more responsible for society, not just 18yos

Agree re South Korea, possibly not the best example (just top of mi d following a recent trip there)

So if national service was complemented to and enhanced state provision or free/subsidised HE it might go down better?

Hmm good points. But the two in tandem…? Probably unelectable on that platform though as a Tory candidate!

Maybe if they hadn't spent 14 years breaking the contract between society and state by providing ever lower services, especially to the young then they shouldn't be surprise thier is pushback

The whole thing is desperate attempt to win back reform voters

This thread has a perspective on what Danes get the makes the national service palatable and includes a link to similar from the finish perspective
https://x.com/MonkEmma/status/1795011589512249642?t=3DQXeAtj2c7VRWcNqqriYA&s=19

Two weeks ago I donated to the Greens, not a great deal, but not tiny either. Mostly because they were the only party seemingly not seeking to bring back Section 28 via the Cass report, specifically excluding all education on LGBTQIA+ things to the young and preventing any sex education until almost secondary school.

Anyhow... I donated, and was then surprised to get an email last week saying "be our candidate" :lolz: , seemingly the requirement to be a Green candidate in an extremely safe Labour seat is "has donated something". For a brief moment I even considered it, because why not... it's a paper candidacy and nothing more, they even say "you don't have to do any campaigning as we won't be supporting you in this"... a pure "give voters the option of choosing Green, but in this seat we haven't a hope in hell".

I procrastinated long enough to have received the email this morning that only one person responded by the deadline and so they are our candidate. Yay... being lazy works :)

Absolutely amazed that this is all that is required though... just a tiny donation and to now be on their email list.

Why did I not respond? Mostly because I dislike the attention and don't want to be the focus of any when I'm already travelling the World and meeting with C-level people. I'm weird enough and those meetings are strange enough, without adding in "they're also a trans candidate for the Green party in the parliamentary election" as an added weird factor.

Mostly because I dislike the attention

A colleague ran as a green candidate and it attracted the worst kind of social media attention, people posting online his house and car calling him a fraud for not having an EV, all kinds of odd things, unsurprisingly the have chosen not to run again

I'm already travelling the World and meeting with C-level people

Insert your own meaning for what c stands for here

Genuine question, what’s the main bug bear with the national service (military or civilian duties) idea?

The army don't want a bunch of people that don't want to be there, especially for only 12 months.

It's not just that a teenager today is more progressive than a teenager in the 90s, but that same teenager in the 90s has more progressive views now as an adult, than they did then.

Anecdotally this checks out. I and many people I know were unpolitical, even nihilistic, in their teens and twenties, and lots of us are now activists. Could never have seen myself doing any charity work or campaigning when I was younger, was just a selfish little shit

In this instance, it's not a serious policy proposal. It's aimed squarely at potential Reform voters, who like the idea of toughening up young people by making them do a year in the army, and is effectively an extension of the culture wars the Tories seem to think is a vote winner for them. It hasn't been costed, no-one who would need to administer it has been engaged with, and it clearly hasn't been given any serious thought about how it would work.

More generally, as others have already said, the idea of 'national service' should be a key component of the social contract between citizens and the government. If it was re-introduced then it needs to be attractive to young people as something that will be a positive experience for them, be beneficial to broader society, and offer a range of options beyond cosplaying as soldiers for a year.

Anyhow... I donated, and was then surprised to get an email last week saying "be our candidate" :lolz: , seemingly the requirement to be a Green candidate in an extremely safe Labour seat is "has donated something".

Was that for where you live? If so, I'd be surprised the Greens couldn't have put up a GE candidate there, but I guess that's because I live in Hackney, where I think they are able to cover all the council wards (or they once were and I've just remembered that even if it was a one-off), and they certainly haven't had any problems in putting up parliamentary candidates.

If they were asking you to be a candidate in another safe Labour seat somewhere else, of course it's not a surprise that they can't contest all seats.

Insert your own meaning for what c stands for here

Campagnolo?

Yes, for where I live in N8.

I did look, the local party photos appear to be about 8 people 🤣 and most of them are councillors in Haringay already, there was one that seemed to be lined up to be the contender but they've shifted to Labour and want to contest a seat up North... so it does look like they have slim pickings.

It's a very safe Labour seat, https://members.parliament.uk/constituency/3538/election/397 and Green barely scores above national average for them. So the local party focusing on council and London elections makes a lot of sense.

They have picked their candidate now anyway, so I'm thankfully off the hook.

Need some of those election posters to put up in my house. While I will likely vote Labour as a tactical vote I'm more aligned to the green party tbh. So to avoid signaling which party specifically anyone know a good site for an anything but the tories poster?

@Steven_Swinford There is a lot of bad blood among Tory MPs -
including from many members of the Cabinet - over Rishi Sunak's
unilateral decision to call an early election

Sustaining party discipline will be challenging, especially in
marginal seats

Steve Baker's criticism of Rishi Sunak's flagship national service
scheme could be a sign of things to come

Might get some of these for my bag

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1240070515/f-the-tories-heart-badge-nobody-likes-a

What are they hiding with this absolute nonsense? It’s politically dead in the water to push mandatory military service, and it’s such an inane platform to run on it’s hard to ignore how that could be the entire point.

Is it simple desperation: clogging the airwaves to prevent discussion of Rishi having a staycation this weekend, and to minimise discussion of Labour policies?

Rishi's gone mad & wants to destroy everything. Basically our PM is Buscemi in Armageddon.

push mandatory military service

Tbf that isn't the proposal, 5% would do a paid placement in the armed forces, 95% would do "voluntary" community service

A fair distinction that I should’ve clarified. Imo, the mention of military service is part of what will get people to fall for the hysteria provoking attention grabbing ploy.

To be fair it’s done a good job of dominating the news cycle.