Running

The Lap ? Not taken part but it's meant to be superb.

Short film about it https://youtu.be/TroLKer8IMs?si=8nJVsakhM_RepjZq

I started doing Parkruns a couple of months ago, and a very slow half mara last weekend, and have now got it into my head that I'll be able to do this in September:

https://saltpansultra.com/

This would obviously be really stupid, but it looks seriously cool, and I guess even if you break, you can walk/hobble 100km in 17hrs?

If you just do a bunch of low heart rate training over the summer, it’s probably doable. Just don’t want to get injured basically. I’d be nervous about carrying enough hydration for that but it looks incredible.

No need to take electrolytes, just lick the ground.

Metaspeed edge + cheap here: https://www.sportsshoes.com/product/asi13560/asics-metaspeed-edge-plus-running-shoes---ss23

I think they've gone. They were 77 quid or so

That’s the one!

Yeah tbf it should be a cracking long weekend. Our friends moved up there a couple years ago and have a lovely place. Their son is good friends with our daughter. So yeah, hopefully some nice weather to boot

How hard is it going to be and how long will it take me? Also training?

Anyway got to focus on Hackney half at the weekend first

Thanks!

How was the descent of Creskeld?

Not sure what mile that was at, but all the decents were very runnable, although the lat 5 miles weaving through the 2h15+ HM finishers was a bit hectic! Not the runners fault, the organiser should stagger the starts to try and merge the two races at equal paces really I think, although that'd be impossible for all paces I guess?

The 3h15 pacers ran an interesting strategy, they caught me uphill and I left them behind downhill, until 16-20 where I was with them at 16, in a group of about 15-20 runners. They set an astonishing pace up the hill taking all with them, I stuck to small rise in HR. I passed many of the group over the next 10km as they blew apart, it was a trail of destruction. I'm told the pacers finished in 3h12 which is a strong run for those who stayed with them.

I sneaked a tiny HM PB at 1:35:16 which I’m happy with 2-weeks after a marathon. I was defo in bonk territory in the last KM..

Awesome result, the heat was rising after 11am and that is a solid run so close to your marathon.

nobody has ever drunk a Erdinger 0% faster.

Mine was drunk very slowly but it was much appreciated.

Sounds like good progress.

I'm really happy with the result, a better performance (not time) than at MCR and my prep in the week and plan on the day was all much improved. After 15 years away there were some basic mistakes ahead of and on the day at MCR, so good to banish those and have the feeling of what a good run should feel like in the bank.

If you want a data point to decide if that's feasible, the 'just finish' ultra distance plans on the marathon handbook site are ~6 months. You'd be starting partway through (given you've been running half marathon distance) but overall I think you'd be risking injury if you're having to steepen the distance curve and drop the easy weeks etc. in order to compress the schedule into <4 months.

Tbh if you want a flat & tedious course just find and enter a local track ultra.

What are the experienced runners thoughts on early morning speed sessions?

With a 2.5 year old and a 6 week old in the house, and a job that’s getting increasingly busy, my only guaranteed time to get a run in is first thing, and I mean really first thing (5am dog walk, 5:30am run).

I had a 10x400m in the diary this morning, so had a carb heavy dinner and 3 weetabix before bed, apple and banana before the dog walk this morning. Session wasn’t easy but I hit the numbers. Running coach mate gave me a bit of an earful for doing a session like that depleted of glycogen and said to have a gel before and mid way next Tuesday.

Anyone else on the dawn runs notice any ill effects of sessions largely on empty?

If you eat well the day before, light brekkie as you did & more brekkie straight after then you should be fine imo.

Depleted glycogen, really?

Any more food than that and I'd be throwing-up during any sort of run.

Unless you had done a big session the day before or something, why does your coach friend think you would have been depleted of glycogen? A 30min walk shouldn't deplete glycogen stores, especially if you ate before heading out with the dog.

Same I need 3 hours minimum after food before running. All my hard sessions are early morning with a dog walk warm up or cool down. Empty stomach doesn't mean empty glycogen stores. I'm good for over an hour of z5 intervals on no food. Just a pint of water a double espresso then after a good clear out I'm ready to rock. Just make sure to have a good breakfast after. 10x1 min hill reps on 30s recovery this morning I'd have felt dreadful with any food inside me and pretty sure I'd have been sick as reps 7-10 I wasn't far off anyway.

Agree. Also on the early sessions some days due to young child. Much prefer to just empty the system first and fuel afterwards.

Rough numbers would be a big feed the night before should mean your glycogen stores are filled.

If you eat that at, say, 8pm and then go out early at 6pm that's only 10 hours. If your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) was, say, 2000kcal/day then those 10 hours of rest/sleep would account for ~800kcal.

So you'd still have at ~800kcal of glycogen left in you. Probably more than that as your body would still be topping up glycogen from your last meal whilst you slept (prolonging the delay before it is drained).

10 x 400m is not going to deplete 800kcal, so you were never anywhere near "depleted of glycogen".

Coach mate is probably some freak that can eat an entire meal before going for a long Z5 effort.

I normally run middle of the day. I have to be almost hungry to consider it, and running (up to ~1hr) suppresses my appetite too, so it'll take me a while afterwards to want to even want to eat 😄

As above, you wont be glycogen depleted. May just be getting used to the early morning higher intensity stuff.
I'd do a normal dinner. I generally run alright after eating a little so I'd have a small breakfast (couple of weetabix, half a banana) just to make me feel like I'm not hungry then take the dog for a walk.
5min warmup, few strides then into it. maybe a gel but 10x400's is a short enough session that you'd probably be done before the sugar hit anyway.

then normal breakfast when done

edit: exactly what rhb said.

I've never experienced it but my wife has whilst marathon training but smelling Ammonia is meant to be a sign of under fueling as your body's going catabolic. I read an article at the time so will try to dig out. Anyone else had or heard of this?
EDIT: found it
https://www.runnersworld.com/health-injuries/a20788991/burning-protein-as-fuel/

Tbh if you want a flat & tedious course just find and enter a local track ultra.

Done that before, and 48 hrs on a treadmill. That's tedious, whereas this looks like an awesome challenge in a unique natural phenomenon, running on your own under the most enormous sky. And you can go see elephants after.

@𝔒𝕨𝖑𝘡 - I've come back from injury to do ultras an annoying number of times, but not after a 7-8 year layoff, with no residual fitness and being actually fucking old. So, I'm going to try to build slow, but suck it and see.

Thanks all for the reassurance, admittedly I thought 4k of effort on empty wasn’t the end of the world, and better than not doing it. I typically do a hard swim on empty every Thursday and am still getting stronger so figured a run would be much the same.

Will crack on with the crack of dawn runs

Can’t say 10x400 was particularly pleasant at 5:30am mind you…

Yes, indeed. In the past I've been in the habit of running long runs on empty, which was fine most of the time but occasionally, particularly on warm days, my sweat would get an ammonia whiff to it, which always coincided with me feeling a little light-headed.

As for early morning sessions, I agree that fueling shouldn't be an issue since you're not doing great volume. Plenty in the tank from the night before. Not a big fan myself as I'm not the best in the morning and I like to get my loo stops sorted! (Parkrun is early enough for me, and then it's up at 7.15, single slice of toast and a coffee...)

Speaking of Parkrun, finally went sub20 (19:55) with 2.5yo in the buggy on Saturday - next stop sub 19:30.

The local course is an out and back with a long drag from 2-2.5km which totally empties the legs, and not a fast course generally.