Asylum seekers

In light of the shameful decision in parliament I thought I’d start a thread for discussion about asylum seekers and refugees. Kind of surprised there isn’t one already.

The decision to send people to Rwanda isn’t made in my name.
I find it utterly abhorrent that we treat some of the most vulnerable people in our world this way.

Hard agree. It's fucking shameful and the legislation is appalling and should never have been passed by parliament.

We need a sensible debate on immigration and to remove the toxicity that Farage and his ilk have brought to it. We have an ageing population and low birth rates, so unless everyone is happy to pay more tax and not get state pensions, we need to think about how we ensure the costs of looking after the population do not fall on a decreasing working population.

Looking at the medium term, it's clear climate change is going to have a catastrophic impact on some of poorest countries in the world, and mass migration is almost certainly going to happen. Preparing the richest countries to deal with that should be on the agenda of any progressive government.

The whole thing is batshit. Either Rwanda is a safe country, in which case it's not a deterrent. Or it's not safe, in which case it's criminal to be sending the most vulnerable people there.

Schrödinger's Deterrent innit?

I read that it's going to cost £1.8 mil per person and would be way cheaper to house them in The Ritz.

It’s a performative piece of cruelty

If you want to adequately manage refugees and asylum seekers then you make application accessible to the people seeking asylum.

If you are a 16 kid in DRC (for instance), you have no route to claim asylum in the U.K. beyond “illegal” means.

In addition it’s a class system. Can you afford a passport and a plane ticket? Welcome!

That's why its 'small boats' and not large yachts. Or private jets.

Isn't also the case that under the terms of the deal, Rwanda can send asylum seekers to the UK?

Yes they're already coming here anyway

I’m just appalled by the decision, if we were so myopic, entitled, lazy, inhumane, selfish I’d understand it, but most people I know are not. A shameful act by Parliament, I will vote to get this reversed.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/africa/east-africa-the-horn-and-great-lakes/rwanda/report-rwanda/

How is this debate best framed?

The anti-immigration lot make arguments [coming round ‘ere, stealin are benefits and are jobs etc] that the pro freedom of movement/ liberal/ caring people/ left/ me don’t address in a way that gets through. IE they have concerns, and telling them their concerns are wrong [even though they often are] obviously doesn’t work. I don’t think pointing out the climate change issues / need to help the poorest people in the world is likely to work as an argument.

Maybe more successful would be something like:

• We need people to come and do jobs here because we’re aging [ie we need immigration]
  
• We understand that “British values*” are important to you [reform voters & chums]
  
• We believe that multiculturalism within a framework of British values will give us a sustainable future as a nation, ie “let in” the people we need, but make efforts to help them fit in.
  
• We have a [insert details] plan to ensure this.
  
  

And then what the plan actually involves I don’t know - there must be some lessons we could learn globally on how to integrate people better.

Problem is, as you say, the whole space around immigration is toxic, and has been hijacked by xenophobes and racists, so it is hard to think about it without fearing back lash one way or another.

*unclear what this means but humour them

And for the record I am appalled by the whole Rwanda plan. I just hope it never makes it into existence.

For a plurality of opinions on immigration this thread on pistonheads is interesting: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1982617

The Rwanda plan is a dress rehearsal to remove all undesirable people, sinister in its approach

I think it's just a plan to appease show daily mail reading tory voters with an election coming up.
Very unlikely to work.

No need to rehearse, the UK has a long history of shipping undesirables’ overseas.

£1.8 mil per person

We could give all the minors a private education,
(not that we want them to turn out that way).

Or give it to the NHS again.

Good one for starting it. I posted in the Tory thread this morning in the absence of anywhere else fitting for my rage / sadness / total fucking desperation at the state of our nation.

rage / sadness / total fucking desperation at the state of our nation

Ditto.

My MP voted 'aye', has anyone contacted their MP with disappointment? Not sure what to write without just being offensive, which won't really help.

Seen here introducing Rishi to her hairdresser lol

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My MP is R##s-M@#@g every time I have written to him I have had an extremely patronising response.

I am pretty sure I know which way he would have voted.

Surprised he even replied, ours won't reply to anything.