That Starmer fella...

not remotely how it reads to me.

now I've got "health crime" rattling round my head to this

https://youtu.be/MDQ7dq7a8T4?si=FB35yhJ-9BjfZa87

I see fiscal rules/ balancing the books, which means austerity for public services, doesn’t apply to defence. Where there’s suddenly a magic money tree for new submarines.

All announced via the Daily Mail front page.

No, they said they would spend 2.5% when the situation allows, which is a very wooly statement that might mean never

Guess it’s a bit ambiguous(perhaps deliberately) but to me (who doesn’t believe that Labour are just like the tories) this is a message about the number of people stuck on NHS waiting lists not being able to work. This is undoubtedly an issue.

Labour aren’t just like the Tories no matter how many times you repeat it.

https://www.lfgss.com/comments/17357558/

borderline fascist

ultra-nationalism

pushing the views of the far right

largely I don't believe this but they're doing a pretty good impression of a party that is with this

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There is nothing left wing about letting people smugglers exploit desperate people with impunity.

lol, because a) that's what I'm saying and b) that's the takeaway most people will have from this.

desperate people

if you think the people that Labour are appealing to with this remotely care about them then I don't really know what to say to you.

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It doesn't really matter how they sell the policy. What matters is the effect of the policy, and how likely they are to be in a position to enact it. And by both those metrics things are looking better than they have for many years.

It's definitely marketing aimed at cunts, I'm not happy about the appeasement of said cunts, but the actual message isn't cunty if the policies behind it are progressive, which there is room for in what is said. If it gets cunts voting for not Tories or not at all then I'll suspend my distaste for now.

It doesn't really matter how they sell the policy.

and that's why Corbyn's Labour did so well at two general elections.

jfc of course it fucking matters

if the policies behind it are progressive,

big if tbh. huge. have seen little to no evidence from them recently that this'll be the case.

If it gets cunts voting for not Tories or not at all

if it gets cunts voting Labour then there's every chance that Labour shift further to the right to keep said cunts on board.

To avoid perception of bad faith, if you largely don’t believe it then don’t use selective quotes to make your point

I think that's what they're getting at, the policy isn't awful, but the selling of it is appealing to people who aren't you. Ignore the the flag shagging and think a little deeper and nothing said is bad, but it dog whistles it's way to potential votes without committing to anything actually awful. I'd agree it's unnecessary with how the polls currently look, but I'm fully behind the "just get the Tories out" schtick, that'll be better, and more better can come after that.

if it gets cunts voting Labour then there's every chance that Labour shift further to the right to keep said cunts on board.

I don't want this, but a further right labour in power is still better than more Tories who are already more right and heading ever more in that direction. It's not perfect, but it's not as bad and has more potential to get better.

have seen little to no evidence from them recently that this'll be the case.

Hopefully that's just them trying not to give ammo to anyone. There's a fair amount of wishful thinking on my part, but there's not really any other options so I'm going to carry on with it unless they categorically prove me wrong.

also linked to the whole post for context so don't think this is particularly fair tbh

I've just moved constituencies, so need to double check but whilst saying all of this I'd 100% be voting green in my old one as it's a very safe labour seat, I want less Tories, I'm labour curious but they're not fully representative of me as they stand, they're much better than the Tories though, so I'll stand up for whatever they're saying, to a point, if it means less Tories.

dog whistles

unnecessary with how the polls currently look

and that's exactly it. it's unnecessary. call me naive but despite my low opinion of the party as it is I'd at least hope that Labour were above that tbh.

but a further right labour in power is still better than more Tories

In the short term, yes, but does that not just shift the overton window further right, and with it the Tories?

there's not really any other options

christ that's depressing

and that's why Corbyn's Labour did so well at two general elections.

I've always tried to think that you and I have differences of political opinion, that it's valuable to talk with people with whom you profoundly disagree, and I've never thought you were bad faith or dishonest. But this is coming very close to it imo.

Starmer's Labour is 20 points ahead in the polls. Corbyn's Labour received one of the worst drubbings in our history.

Starmer's Labour is good at selling policy. Corbyn's Labour was terrible at selling policy.

When the sale works, it doesn't matter how it's done. If the sale isn't working, that's when it matters.

They're two different situations.

christ that's depressing

I mean, yeah. But it's less depressing if there aren't Tories in power. Smash down the short term antidepressants of whatever the fuck this current labour party are pushing and then get onto the longer-term stuff to treat it properly, the wishful thinking is hoping that's still an option after the decimation of mental health services much like the rest of the country.

if it gets cunts voting Labour then there's every chance that Labour shift further to the right to keep said cunts on board

If you pull them to your view with a change of phrasing you've moved the cunts not yourself.
Why would Labour then need to change their own position on anything (for at least five years)? This is politics as it should be. Bring people to your position not berate them or chase populism.

and that's exactly it. it's unnecessary. call me naive but despite my low opinion of the party as it is I'd at least hope that Labour were above that tbh.

You're nieve.
I think it's unnecessary, it's probably unnecessary, but it seems to be they've got a plan in place from way before the polls were this much in their favour, sticking to it has got them this much in their favour and they don't want to fuck with what is working whether that's what they're doing or what the Tories are throwing away, stick to the plan and don't fuck it up The plan might be a bit heavy handed for the current situation, but it was working, it is working, don't fuck it up

I want secure borders, sensible people do, not least so we can have a decent Refugee & Immigration policy. Under the tories we don't have this.

I refuse to give up the flag to the right,I claim it as I claim the word Queer.

Is there anything Labour could say or do that would make you happy?
I honestly doubt it.

#selectiveedit

largely I believe they're a pretty good party