Sort-of memes that are cracking you up at the moment

Love it

Incredible

Why is that so mesmerising?! Wow!

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https://youtu.be/RBZJM5v4KB8?si=g_lWGWAYek4y6S23

We're just normal oompa loompas

https://twitter.com/HackerTDog/status/1779787517576843455

Thank you, that reminded me to go and watch the original clip which just makes me very happy.

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Finally some memes

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I can't hear pictures

Where was that coin bathroom floor post again?

DIY, I was expecting the punch line to be it fell through the ceiling

Do you believe the universe is deterministic?

I believe our most reliable information, which indicates that's more or less the case; quantum fluctuations are dozens and dozens of orders of magnitude below the macro level. Sure, the quantum fluctuations determined the shape of our universe, but everything had to be in one place for that... Not much influence since. And even if the odd quantum event could knock you from one set of rails to another, that doesn't help you make any actual choices.

It's quite the stretch if you want to believe in both physics and free will - the only way I can square it is by assuming the multiverse is true, and invoking something that answers to the concept of a soul, which somehow metaphysically gets to decide which universe it inhabits. Problem with that, is that it implies each of us is more fundamentally alone than I've ever seen anybody imagine - surrounded by philosophical zombies; shadows of their real (inhabited) selves, who are also horribly alone in their other universes.

Dunno if I fancy that

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But if we didn't believe in individual free will culture would stagnate. And the future definitely doesn't exist, it's just an idea.

You don't support either of those assertions... The first I doubt, because free will as an illusion is a far harder concept to grasp and integrate than mortality, so the proportion of folks who actually manage that will always be minuscule.

The second is refuted rather inescapably by special relativity; frames of reference certainly exist in which your future is in somebody else's past, strongly implying the future already exists, and that the perception of 'now' is a figment of awareness.

The universe doesn't provide free lunches, but it has some pretty snazzy tricks up its sleeve to balance the books...

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Determinism and free-will are different things. I don't know enough to talk about free-will, but (in my humble opinion) I think it's fairly safe to say we live in a non-deterministic universe:

True randomness exists, in radioactive decay, but also due to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle (you can't know a particle's position and momentum with 100% accuracy). Couple that with the Butterfly Effect, and you've got yourself a universe with an unknowable future.

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As you say,

Determinism and free-will are different things.

If reality is (for all intents and purposes, ie on the macro level) deterministic, that rules out free will. But if not, that doesn't necessarily mean you have free will either.

Randomness doesn't help you make a choice; actual choices aren't facilitated by any sort of coin flips deciding for you.

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle relates to the impossibility of knowing the current state of reality and thus rules out perfectly accurate prediction, but says nothing about whether the future is fixed.

Chaos theory (the butterfly effect) talks about consequences down the line diverging radically based on tiny variations in initial conditions, reinforcing the uncertainty principle, and goes on to branch into complexity theory which describes how you can get emergent phenomena in complex systems when you have the right blend of chaos and order, for instance qualia in your brain.

None of this helps you make your own choices, because they occur as emergent phenomena in the complex system of your brain, which is a physical thing operating like clockwork according to physical rules, and can only respond as it always would under the precise circumstances in which you find yourself.

Just because it's impossible to know those precise circumstances, and perhaps even impossible to predict your choice even if we could know the circumstances, that doesn't help you escape cause and effect - which is what free will would have to do, to be free.

At any rate, special relativity has been shown to be very solid. And it's no stretch of special relativity to show that another person, given a suitable position and velocity, can directly observe future you, making the 'choice' that future you was always going to make.

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"complexity theory which describes how you can get emergent phenomena in complex systems when you have the right blend of chaos and order, for instance qualia in your brain."

Somebody has described how you get qualia?

Cheers

@Kimmo & @cyclotron3k

..one of my most favourite thread derails so far this year, please keep going 👍

There are no thread derails.

You had no choice but to say that.

how you get qualia?

Exotic vegetable section on Ocado?

If there's no free will then why didn't I write this?

Has anyone made a Free Willy joke yet?