EU referendum, brexit and the aftermath

One thing I would say in support of farmers is that supermarket buyers shouldnt be able to screw them down below cost for products.

Nope

You pay the host nation's VAT and then they reimburse you.

It's a scheme to encourage tourism I think.
Happens all over the world. Def in the USA as well as EU

Interestingly and topically the UK axed their own Tax free Shopping scheme last year, as an effect of Brexit.

I’m not sure this is a strong argument. Still more than the overall % (ie 53% > 51.9%, although obviously not by much).

Analogy: 90% of public school old boys enjoy a good caning. Only 85% of old Etonians do, therefore old Etonians are not sadomasochists.

Ok that's fair, not very intersectional.

But this system doesn't work, farmers complain everywhere about having to part rewild as they already struggle with costs and knowledge barriers.

Big farms are efficient but often owned by profit only groups lobbying government and pretending to be for "the small farmer" while rivers are full of shit they create, a full rethink for the UK isn't a bad idea.

But then of course it can't be short term without future funds and planning as always seems to be the way...

There is a duty free allowance of £390 (per person, per trip). Go over that and you do have to pay VAT and duty. That's what the red channel is for.

£2 EU roaming charge per day: my current Brexit benefit...

This seems a more relevant quote from that article:

But even if EVERY farmer in the UK had voted the same way in 2016 it wouldn’t have changed the result. There were around 130,000 farmers in the UK in 2016. The difference between Leave and Remain was 1,269,501 votes – 10 times the number of farmers in the UK!

Hmmm....are you saying you haven't put forward a strong argument or the writer?

Another analogy would be:

• people routinely say people from Norfolk fuck their siblings, and ridicule them all as a result.
  
• However, the numbers show only 53% do.
  

Or

• People say UX designers don't wear deodorant.
  
• The stats show 53% of them don't wear deodorant.
  
• 52% of IT workers don't wear deodorant
  

Yeah. I thought that was a good insight.

I guess my point was that people frame farmers as a homogeneous group who deserve to get fucked by Brexit because they all voted for it. Whereas, actually based on the patchy info we have they probably voted more or less in line with everyone else.

I mean, look I reflexively judge farmers as much as the next person. But when you look into it, it seems like it may be unfair and overly judgemental.

Whereas, actually based on the patchy info we have they probably voted more or less in line with everyone else.

As they are now getting fucked over by Brexit (entirely predictable) I think it's fair to say they had a huge incentive to vote differently to everyone else and that they didn't is a failure on their part.

• a majority of UX designers don't wear deodorant
  
• 53% of UX designers voted to put people who smell bad in prison
  
• 51% of everyone else voted to put people who smell bad in prison
  
• UX designers complain that they're being prosecuted for smelling bad
  
  

I do agree that the thing with farmers is a bit overblown - people talk as if farmers were 90% for Leave. That's not accurate, but still, they would've voted like 20% Leave if they had any sense.

Very true.

The Common Agricultural Policy is a fucking disaster, and easily the worst aspect of EU membership, as it benefits farmers enormously financially, although it makes it very difficult for them to diversify, whilst being a disaster for the environment.

The UK government's replacement policy is actually not bad, given it's been put together by this shower of bastards, but so much of British farming is not economically viable, and is compounded by the purchasing power of the supermarket chains, that it's no surprise farmers are upset at the new strings that are attached to the new subsidies they are receiving.

This is good. I was trying to say that saying “most farmers voted for brexit, but actually they don’t deserve to be punished for it, because if you compare them to the brexity groups they belong to (white old rural men) they’re slightly less brexity” is a poor argument. Which seemed to me to be one of the points the article was making.

But of course farmers aren’t homogenous, and nearly half voted to stay, and it’s not great to generalise / blame.

Also I don’t think it’s relevant that they couldn’t have swung the vote - if (and I don’t know whether this is true) the same farmers who voted Brexit are now wanting special help because Brexit has brexited them [to borrow a phrase from the playground] it would be justifiably annoying.

The farmers seem to be very upset however at the trade agreements the government signed with Australia and NZ in particular.

I’m not surprised, they are shit deals negotiated in a hurry and both the Australian and New Zealand Governments got pretty much exactly what they wanted, including tariff free imports of farming produce.

The CAP now offers green payment schemes as well.

But as no targets are enforced its very much up to the individual member states.

Not just UK farming is in trouble, small French farms are too. But just having mega companies lobbying the government doesn't sound great either to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/10/briton-and-french-wife-face-brexit-visa-bill-to-return-home-to-uk

This story struck me as I'm in a similar position. After 7+ years of working in France, I'd like to once again work in my native language - and preferably in my native country near to my family and friends. However, I now have a partner who is French and she would be subject to a large visa fee/health charges (we calculated it to be around 7000 GBP but maybe it's more?) with no guarantee of being able to work etc, so ultimately we've opted for trying out Ireland instead.

And yes, I am a doctor, so one less health professional for the country.

Amateur.

You know you're supposed to travel together - we just pick the shortest queue depending on the airport.

Fuck Brexit.

I have some mates who work for defra with farmers and I spoke with them a lot before and after Brexit about which way “farmers” would vote (and if leave why?).

What a lot of people and surveys don’t do is draw a distinction between the farmers and the employees. This is the countryside and of course there’s a massive class divide.
In general the farmers were more likely to vote remain (according to my buddies), but the workers were more likely to vote leave because…the Sun, talk radio, Facebook horseshit.

The only semi coherent argument against the EU doing the rounds (and it was a non-argument) was that the EU agricultural policy allowed the more wealthy farmers to game the system and grow wealth and an exponential rate that would force smaller farms out of business. As I said before it was a non argument because it was about a policy that could have been changed without leaving the EU.

So in short Farmers and Farm workers are not the same (despite them all being covered in shit and tying their trousers up with string)

Just got absolutely shafted on an order from Lordgun. I forgot about the £135 vat limit (I thought it was going up?) and bought £150 worth of kit and stung £72 from HMRC. Nearly 50% of the value of the order. Complete fucking nonsense.

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Yikes!!

I won't buy from UK any more, not worth it. (In Europe)

I only buy when I go home to visit now... My most recent sting was a free book I was being sent from the Guardian Bookstore (I was given a voucher to include the book and shipping) - meaning I hadn't paid! - and which cost only £8.99 but for which I was charged 10 Euros import fees (tax and handling fees). And I didn't even want the book!