That Starmer fella...

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  • Yep all this ^

  • All this “there’s no difference between Labour and the Tories” is dispiriting - there are differences, links have been provided but so deep is the mindset that they are ignored and the mantra is repeated.

    First priority must be to get rid of this rancid government - have they achieved anything positive in 14 years?

  • Also Sunak with his “our plan is working, Labour has no plan” gibberish - doesn’t that make this the perfect time to call an election, you thundering balloon

  • I think people forget how utterly useless this government is and focus only on their opinion of its morality.

    Take something like the processing of asylum applications. A recent report has shown that hotels are cheaper than the other options. They ommited comparing against just processing applications properly.

    Even on a purely utilitarian basis, having a government that processes claims quickly instead of fucking around with PR stunts reduces costs.

    No industrial strategy. Farcical trade deals. The list goes on.

    We desperately need a real government. That alone will be a change.

  • Practical things like, Labour who don't have a psycho drama melt down whenever anyone says EU.

    Might even be able to work out some pragmatic deals on trade and free movement that would be much better for us in many ways. Sure the Faragest Spartan loones are going to kick off, but the're not holding a weak government and PM ransom anymore.

  • What do you think Starmer's Labour will deliver once in power? I tend to think he'll do as he says, and we'll have, at best, end stage Blairite or Coalition policies.

    One (smallish and watered-down, but tangible) thing is the strengthening of workers' rights - inter alia, protection from unfair dismissal from day one of employment.

    When I started work, you had to be employed for two years to have that sort of basic right. The 1997 Labour government reduced the qualifying period to one year in 1999, the Cameron/LibDem coalition put it right back up to two years from 2012.

  • We desperately need a real government. That alone will be a change.

    It will be a change yes, but if that's all you're hoping Labour will deliver then I struggle to see the point.

    We've seen in America how easy it is for the Far Right to take a strong foothold when people don't challenge them directly to try and shift the Overton window back to the centre.

    Rightly or wrongly plenty of vulnerable people are seriously disenfranchised with politicians and if Labour aren't willing to talk about truly progressive changes that will have a material benefit to them, and are instead happy to be a centrist neo-liberal "good government", then it cedes that ground to right wing populists who will happily take it

  • I struggle to see the point.

    Anything better is better. Better than that can be worked on from there.

  • For all those who think we're going to get a Starmer/Reeves version of austerity, this is worth a read:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/24/for-the-birds-rachel-reeves-has-outlined-a-plan-to-give-britain-liftoff

    It might change your mind, it might not, but I think it makes it clear that we're not going to get more of the same.

  • The Polanyi references are particularly strange, given Labour’s takeaway from it is to continue much of what he was against (balanced budgets and commodity money).

    Separating capital investment from day-to-day spending is such an obvious improvement on today’s fiscal rules, but then the overall limitation of total debt falling within 5 years is crazy, and would totally undo any capital investment with a longer repayment period (what investment is fully repaid in 5 years?!).

    On similar lines:
    https://twitter.com/fromarsetoelbow/status/1771843813599801838

  • It might change your mind, it might not, but I think it makes it clear that we're not going to get more of the same.

    I think that’s true too btw, it feels like we’re going to have an austerity-light era, but not full on neoliberalism, with various non-taxation related supply-side reforms.

    Whether that’s enough is the question here I think, rather than dismissing altogether that it’ll be better.

  • The only question is do you want more of this Tory party. Everything else is whatifs and maybes

  • The only question is do you want more of this Tory party

    Let’s answer that then: no, and I don’t think there’s a single person on this thread that would seriously answer otherwise. Can we move on from this simplistic framing now?

    (Edit: I’m not directly pointing at you here!)

  • Anything better is better

    hard agree.

  • that's all you're hoping Labour will deliver then I struggle to see the point.

    It's not all I'm hoping for. But the 'point' is a functioning government is important.

    I'm probably right of most of the people in this thread. So the prospect of a Blair-like government doesn't fill me with the same dred, on the same topics as others here.

    I don't think say, investing public money into RE with the aim of increasing tax revenue cedes that ground to right wing populists.

    In fact, I don't think it's a stretch to say that if you look at most right wing populists, their economics have far more in common with the left, than the centre right.

  • functioning government

    Imagine that, what have this lot done in the last two years apart from argue about leadership and fail to stop the boats or get Rwanda through, completely non functional in terms of delivering improvements that make people's lives better

  • Fake news, the government has been delivering for the people and the plan is working (I’m practicing here for my next performance review and, when refuted, will respond with “I don’t recognise that characterisation” - what can possibly go wrong)

  • In fact, I don't think it's a stretch to say that if you look at most right wing populists, their economics have far more in common with the left, than the centre right.

    What little economic strategy Reform have is largely cutting income taxes, lower corporation tax, cutting “red tape” (i.e. employment rights!) , dropping foreign aid, reducing benefit payments, lower taxes on fossil fuels… etc. etc.

    https://www.reformparty.uk/our-contract-contents

    I guess having the central bank not paying interest to private banks is interesting, but it’s not exactly what you’d call a left wing programme!

    It basically adds up to a small state and small business despotism.

  • I think he’s got amnesia and every day he’s like starting fresh.

    Absolute cunt

  • Like Memento, yeah?

  • Ooooof, good move


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  • I mean levelling up as an idea is great.

    I wonder why he is saying this though (not read the article or any interview).
    Is this is part of a two headed plan to make labour seem less partisan, to show they will work for good ideas that will help the country, and make sunak look like a bell end.

    Edited for swearing as this isn't the Tory thread.

  • I guess its to please those in the red wall seats who bought into Bojo's levelling up premise.

    Also, it seems pretty clear that there are many regions who have historically been underfunded and in desperate need of new infrastructure.

  • I mean levelling up as an idea is great.

    Particularly if you live in Tunbridge Wells.

  • IMO, he's so confident of winning the next election he's simply moving on the tories ground; taking their ideas, BoJo's Leveling Up and making it his own. I think the Reeve's "Thatcher" speech is an example of this as well.

    I believe he's doing this not just to win the next election but to do it with a landslide, which will in all probability secure him and 2nd Labour a second term in office. I take it as a sign of confidence.

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That Starmer fella...

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