Any question answered...

Nobody can force you under threat of imprisonment to pay for anything in bitcoin. You can be forced to pay tax in the relevant fiat currency.

An army is just a bunch of people with resources

I’d rephrase to it’s a bunch of people with a potential for work, which is an application of physical force in the real world.

The higher your ambitions and bigger your opposition, the more force required to overcome their force, and the more work required to overcome their inertia. The stronger and better equipped your army, the more work you’re able to perform.

Or to be more specific, I do see a difference, but not in terms of whether or not a currency has intrinsic value.

If it can be exchanged for goods and services it has intrinsic value. If it can't be exchanged for goods and services, but can be exchanged for currency which can be exchanged for goods and services, it still obviously has intrinsic value. The intrinsic value is tied to how useful it is as a currency and its longevity or stability as a project.

It is hard to argue that Bitcoin has zero utility given it can be exchanged for goods and services (even if indirectly), and it is hard to argue that it has no longevity given that it is still going after ~15 years and is backed by a bunch of rich and wealthy people, so I can't accept the argument that it has no value. It is probably bad value but that's not the same.

The trick (and the real underlying basis of bitcoin) is considering that this computation has a value.

I'm never quite sure about this bit. It seems to me the computation value (btw I respect you are still holding out against 'compute') is largely a proxy for electricity usage. A lot of which is stolen for mining.

The Vietnamese government cannot force you personally to pay for things in Vietnamese Dong. Does that mean Vietnamese Dong has no value to you?

(I presume you're not in Vietnam)

Thanks to all who replied.
I happened to be near The Strand and found a place that wasn't far off my Revolut rate so was happy with that. 👍

The intrinsic value is tied to how useful it is as a currency and its longevity or stability as a project.

I think it’s the opposite: intrinsic value is how desireable it is other than as a currency. Gold or any other commodity are desireable, whether they’re in coin shape or not; bits of thin plastic or plasticised paper are much less desireable, unless they are issued as legal tender and sanctified as fiat money.

Then my pennies have more intrinsic value than my fivers

Yes they do. And it’s an actual problem in the US, for example, where the cost of the copper to produce the pennies is higher than what they are worth at face value. Of course there’s a lobby effort (Save the Penny or something) that keeps the treasury making pennies, but it’s an anomaly.

You seem to be using "intrinsic value" in an odd way (although the whole concept is slightly oxymoronic since value exists due to the valuer, not the object itself). A big gold coin has more intrinsic value than a small gold coin because gold itself is considered valuable regardless of its shape. The same is not true of bank notes or base-metal coins.

Currency nowadays doesn't have intrinsic value, it has agreed value. The same is true of bitcoin but that doesn't make them the same.

https://stanfordcomparativeadvantage.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/moore-penny.pdf

Some sources in case of interest :)

They changed the 1p coin from bronze to copper plated steel for this reason.

https://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/coin-design-and-specifications/one-penny-coin/

Currency nowadays doesn't have intrinsic value, it has agreed value. The same is true of bitcoin but that doesn't make them the same.

Edit: what I mean with the above is that using bitcoin means using the non-centralised, non-government, relatively secure and transparent bitcoin network to send value. An unbanked Kenyan tribesman with a smartphone can buy something from Japan with bitcoin, which they theoretically couldn’t do without a government regulated bank account. Or a Venezuelan citizen, if they’re able to find someone who will take their currency for bitcoin, can actually their money overseas as bitcoin and more people will accept it (very few countries have exchanges for Venezuelan bolivars).

The ability to do that has value.

Double edit: seems I erased initial paragraph. I think I said something along the lines of bitcoin does have intrinsic value, and that’s why it’s considered a commodity, because owning bitcoin means you can transfer value with the network, and that’s useful and worth something.

That's not what "intrinsic" means.

Scumbag thieves melt down priceless antique silver candlesticks because the silver they're made of has intrinsic value.

EDIT: apologies I see you were making a more subtle point, but it feels like what you're describing is utility (?) rather than intrinsic value.

Any dead horse beaten thread

Okay, now we've got to the nub of it. Pennies do have more intrinsic value than fivers! Fivers have extrinsic value. Shares also have extrinsic value because their value is reliant on the global financial/legal system continuing to run as normal. As pieces of paper, they are worthless. Bitcoin also has extrinsic value in that it's also a part of that global financial/legal system and a set of rich people want it to stay valuable.

It well could have, bit of a shame I'd like to see more electronics repair shops about ! Thanks for recco anyway

having recently been scammed on fb, these seem fishy as fuck and I would steer well clear from any ad that isn’t cash on collection now

'Value' let alone 'intrinsic value' has multiple very different meanings depending on context.

Shares do have intrinsic value - if you are a financial analyst.

Unless they help an individual fulfil a basic human need (which itself is difficult to tie down to absolutes), all meanings depend on transactions in some form of exchange/market/system context.

Some metal is pretty useful to dig for potatoes, or stab people with.
Gold isn't, but it looks pretty.
Paper is good insulation and fuel. Plastic banknotes don't burn well.

Why isn't there an online discussion / forum convention to flag semantic issues in a discussion early on?

You've have thought after decades of chat pages in one form or another something would have been formed.

Could the list system be modified perhaps?

intrinsic value

1. fabfurrymarmots - molten candlesticks
   
2. Leshaches - a value beyond what something's face value is
   
   

Etc

What set top boxes are people using for TV these days?

My heart says Nvidia Shield Pro, but my wallet says no.

Fire Stick with the settings so you can sideload apps or whatever it's called.

I mainly use the standard apps but also have Kodi for less standard ones.

So what's the con here?

Set up fake profile with 100s of photos and friends.
List something at near market value.
Wait for someone to ask to come and collect.
Reveal true location.
Wait for buyer to ask if they'll post.
Reply 4 days later with postage costs.
Send an empty box with legit tracking etc.

Seems long for £150. Or am I being really naïve and the seller is actually a bot and not a wholesome mum who puts kisses at the end of her messages?

Nvidia shield pro is good but I'm not sure if it's enough better than the equivalent Google TV dongle to justify the extra price.

Interface is now virtually identical. The shield pro is a touch more customisable and has the (big if you need them) plus of USB ports. I have some wireless USB headphones plugged in which I find way more reliable than Bluetooth.