That Starmer fella...

Don't remember any flag shaggers being up in arms about this

Hard to see from your pic but in this one I found the Union Jack is red, white and blue.

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genuine question - would be interested in what these are that aren't just vibes

https://www.publicfirst.co.uk/labour-policies.html

Though this doesn't include the worker protections which are covered in more detail on the main Labour website.

I'm with you on un-evidenced hopeful optimism.

I dont think I'll be as disappointed as some as even a small change would be better than where we are as a country now.
Maybe I'm a realist that this country doesn't do positive radical systemic change?

What did people think of Reeves Mais lecture the other night?

Also Thornberry is on board with the flag outrage much to nick Ferraris approval on the radio just now

oh, right, assumed I had missed something. maybe we have a different definition of progressive. idk.

Thornberry and the flag again, is it? 😃

At this point simply having a functional NHS and other public services is radically progressive. I don't know how anyone can have gone through the last 14 years of Tories without lowering their bar for good government

but I don't for one second think we'll have a Cameron-like government.

Why not? Starmer's Labour has been pretty consistent on that's exactly what they're going to deliver. See every speech given by Rachel Reeves or Wes Streeting.

It's well known that the current government's fiscal plan is a fiction, and that Labour are playing along with it to get elected. They talk about operating within it, so as not to give the media a stick with which to beat them, see Labour always put up taxes attack lines by the Tories, even though they've increased taxes more than any government since WW2.

As soon as they take office they are going to have to say that the countries finances are in a fucking mess, and we need to do something about it, placing the blame squarely on the Tories for fucking us over. Taxes will go up for the rich, but the Labour leadership know, and the electorate know, that the country can't afford five more years of austerity as by the end of that period the country would be royally fucked.

Is it a sensible plan to play along with this fiction to get elected? I don't know, but it seems to be working for now.

I suppose Starmer does have form for saying made-up stuff, just to get elected (see the Labour leadership election). However, sometimes, if it walks and quacks like a Neo-Liberal duck, then perhaps it is.

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Were you of voting age in '92?
Anything Starmer says before the coming General Election will be twisted by our rightwing press.
Any sensible, progressive policies will be stolen by shameless Tory chancellors,
(most recently changes to NonDom status).

I am willing to believe Starmer if he tells me the sky is green, if it leads to a Labour government.

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Totally this. Even though I'm still voting SNP

And I would like to think I understand your reasons.

In a different parallel universe the UK took advantage of the benefits of a federal Europe,
dissolved the Westminster parliament,
and contributed to the EU as four separate states within the EU decision making processes.

I'm not naive to the fact that the SNP need the Tory status quo to remain. However I feel like voting Labour around my way would be akin to pissing in the wind

Were you of voting age in '92?

Anything Starmer says before the coming General Election will be twisted by our rightwing press.
Any sensible, progressive policies will be stolen by shameless Tory chancellors,
(most recently changes to NonDom status).

I am willing to believe Starmer if he tells me the sky is green, if it leads to a Labour government.

I was indeed of voting age in 1992.
Starmer has spent a lot of time getting the right wing press on-side; think pieces for the Mail, courting Murdoch etc None of them have had a sustained attack at Starmer, as he's generally promising to deliver what their after. At this stage if feels more like a coronation, rather than an election.
As for the last sentence, it feels a bit football politics - do anything to get the red team over the line, regardless of what they stand for.

What do you think Starmer's Labour will deliver once in power? I tend to think he'll do as he says, and we'll have, at best, end stage Blairite or Coalition policies.

Can Labour realise the dangers of a lack of pragmatic radical policies whence in power? We live in febrile times, if Labour is overwhelmed by inherited problems and fails to improve material well being of ordinary workers and their families,
what then? A failed government and the right wing press smelling blood. All bets are off.

I do remember Starmer being criticised for supporting a donkey sanctuary.
I do remember Starmer being accused of failing to prosecute Jimmy Saville.
These were just warm ups, the right wing press will get ever more febrile after the election is announced.
After 14 years of Tory maladministration, we know there is no combination of their policies that will deliver a fairer society.
I currently have no idea what a Starmer government will deliver, because as above, any 'good' policies will be stolen and partly implemented by this shameless tail end of an administration.
But there is a greater prospect of polices based upon social justice from a Labour government, and, that is good enough.

See also his interview this week with Harry Cole, one of the worst government client journalists and his questioning on when did you last do drugs and don't you regret representing bad people in your previous career

Exactly. Harry Cole tried an aggressive line of questioning. Starmer handled the interview well.

I suspect Harry Cole's credibility with the Sun readership may fall once they hear his accent and see his interpersonal style.

Starmer has spent a lot of time getting the right wing press on-side; think pieces for the Mail, courting Murdoch etc

Feels somewhat reminiscent of Blair and the Sun coming over to support him.

It's unlikely the Tories are going to win even if the press go full hatchet job on Starmer so Murdoch, etc may as well be pragmatic and get on board.

This is my concern. Labour comes in, futzes around with some minor details on the edges of things whilst failing to tackle the substantial stuff that actually matters to people, and then gets kicked out in favour of a even harder right Tory party. And then it’s basically Children of Men cosplay until the end of the world.

That’s not a concern, it’s a nailed on certainty. ‘Don’t worry, we’ll be just like the Tories until you feel you can vote for them again.’