I want to get a dog but I have to work, how does everyone on broadway market do it ?

Anyway, I’ve just got back from leaving the dog with my eldest for about 2 x 20 mins today and there’s no dramas to deal with. So I’m happy with that.

I guess there is that “how does your dog learn the cues to not interact with certain dogs if they don’t interact with certain dogs and their dog cues”.

Gonna get real anecdotal here, but it feels like there's been a massive increase in dog owners who have no interest in letting their dogs socialise / play with other dogs. Feels rare that I encounter someone who's happy to let their dog have a run around and a bit of rough and tumble.

Used to interpret dog off lead = ok to play but I've had a guy swear at me and kick out at my dogs when they chased after 'his' digs ball (inb4 I'm the bad owner).

There’s lots of owners I’ve met in this short journey and most are really happy to have Bailey reunite their dog with their inner puppy.
Most tell me if they’re not and off we go.

What has ground my gears today is the dude just sitting on the bench, scrolling and throwing a ball occasionally for a dog that didn’t like other dogs playing with it, taking up all of the park. Even the “off road gnarly fenced off” section was unusable because he was sat in plain sight of the fenced off area.

Disgusted of se26!

(But i recognise the other dude might have just needed his own time so I’m really not too bothered)

There are always those type of people. I used to see a guy walking around his off lead staffy and shout at anyone who let their dog go nearby. Likewise there was someone with two older jack russles that would go for any dog that got too close, always doing laps of the park off lead. Most are happy to have their dogs run around and use some energy.

there's a ton of people who love to swagger along round here on the few footpaths away from the roads with their massive dogs off leash who won't move a muscle to control them if they decide to come check benny out. which is super stressful now we're jogging. having been attacked a number of times by a couple of bad dogs and their shit owners as a pup he's rightfully a bit of a skeptic when it comes to big dogs while he's in tight areas like a narrow footpath. I go out of my way to keep him calm so he doesn't set the wrong dog off with a mistimed woof and keep him to his shortest length of leash and put him on the opposite side of me to the other dog but bit fucking difficult to prevent it when the other dog is just roaming around metres from the owners reach.

also and i'm sure it's just a coincidence there's also an epidemic amount of giant piles of dog shit that just heaps up day after day on every single stretch of pavement in a half mile radius as it would take a hurricane to get rid of it naturally.

Where abouts in Sydenham are you? I'm in Penge and found Alexandra rec ground (in the middle of the two) was really good for getting Crumpet socialised when she was younger. If you get there at peak hours just before or after work, there are usually quite a few dogs that are running around interacting with each other. Most owners seem pretty switched on there as well. It's not as nice a walk as Crystal Palace Park but we still try and mix it up between the two. There are fewer distractions than the bigger parks as well so we find it helpful to work on certain aspects of training.
For what it's worth, as long as nobody gets hurt or massively stressed out, the occasional telling off isn't a bad thing to teach your pup social cues! Crumpet used to be a fucking nightmare, wanting to run up and play with every single dog she saw. A few telling offs did her a wonder of good.

I'm right next to Wells Park, where I've been meeting lots of good people. I've met lots of good people everywhere. This is one instance and really was around the "my (little) dog is reactive" dude just taking the whole park. But there may be reasons why they were behaving in their way. They were not swaggering around like they own the place.

Anyway this morning: nice walk on the long line, plenty of treats, new "where's dad" rather than "come" seemed to work, into the woody bit, off lead running around in there, trying to do some fetch (runs to ball/toy, picks it up, leaves it runs into bushes chases bee, comes back with cans/plastic pint pots), back onto lead to walk out, walk around, on to the main bit, meet some other dogs, run around like a twat with the other pup, realise the older dog won't play, leave it alone, run off at the end, "where's dad?", comes back in the general direction, realises its me, mega treat on arrival.

Just school avoidance to deal with as a parent now.

Nice, sounds like progress!

Good tips from Loz, I'm SE26 and timing in any of the parks is key. In my experience earlier is when you get the more attentive dog walkers, the dogs disposition is much less of an issue if people are paying attention. Crystal Palace park is great because you're generally always moving forward rather than standing around letting there dogs play like people do in smaller parks (EDIT: comment not clear, see discussion below...). Nori doesn't have great recall and can be reactive but is 90% off lead there as we are generally breezing past one another. I've noted a lot more people with there dogs on lead recently and they almost always thank me when i put Nori back on lead when passing. To me that's just standard dog owner protocol.

I haven't been this year but Wells park was an on lead park so it could be that!

I've noticed that Crumpet is worst behaved if we stick to the same park for every walk as well. She goes a bit deaf and can get a bit shirty with other dogs. I think it's a combination of becoming a bit territorial, a bit bored and a bit complacent (that last one applies to me as well). Mixing it up means she's much more stimulated and better behaved, win win!

We'll have to sort a SE LFGSS IWTGADBIHTWHDEOBMDI meet up at some point.

Count us in for the SE LFGSS IWTGADBIHTWHDEOBMDI meet up! Owen and Cora (@Skülly) already well acquainted, would love to meet some more local pups.

SE LFGSS IWTGADBIHTWHDEOBMDI

I do a 7am ish walk, lunchtime potter, and then something in the evening around 5-6.

Trying to get to CPP.
Alex Rec is close in human terms but a journey before I get there.
BPP is the dream.

Out of interest, what was the behaviorists argument against standing around and letting the dogs play? I'm just back from morning walk and it's joyous to stand with a nice group of folk as our dogs play really well around us. Everyone's keeping a eye to check that play stays on the right tracks but dogs all playing really well, taking (and respecting) breaks when they want to and engaging positively at other times. Hard to see anything wrong with it from where I was standing.

They definitely get more comfortable with the regular places too. Mine will venture much further away from me in the one we go to each lunch time and sometimes refuses to leave but in the bigger park that we go to less often her recall is much better.

Broadly speaking engagement/disengagement skills and the ability to interact with dogs outside of that circle/environment. My local park has a regular group that does exactly what you describe with one another but are reactive with dogs that don't engage in the same way. Other dog walkers i know in the area give them a wide birth and quite often don't feel like they can be in the same space as them. Of course it's normal to let dogs play and blow off steam but the reality is too many people don't mix it up with the walking, playing etc. Sadly i've seen quite a few puppies develop behaviour problems as they go through teens into adult dogs because of this.

There are at least a half dozen dogs i regularly come across that are the sweetest, goofiest most playful characters i've met. However i've barely had a nod from their owners as they rarely stop and simply call there dog away once its said hello. At no point does the dog look like it's being robbed of a good time. Nori gets lots of praise and a treat for a sniff and leave and almost always looks thrilled by the interaction!

Interesting, thanks for taking the time to respond! We've only spent a few mornings with this particular circle group, but def don't recognise the suggestion that they're reactive with other dogs - Owen was that other dog very recently and everyone greeted him very nicely and they all play well. As seemingly happens every time a 'new' dog walked past. I can get that if someone has a reactive dog a big circle of playing dogs probably isn't a great place to be but I'm not sure I see (yet) any detriment to the dogs who are enjoying it. I certainly prefer these dogs being encouraged to engage with other dogs vs the ones who are so ball-focused they will refuse any canine interaction and eyes unmovingly fixed on the ball in the hope of another throw.

As the owner of a silly sweet goofy dog I love to see him play with other dogs (he loves it more than anything else) and the idea of calling him away every time he went up to say hello doesn't seem like it would be in his interests but maybe I'm unknowingly sabotaging his future happiness?

I've been rewarding mine for naturally coming back to me after meeting other dogs, now she runs up to them, stops about 2 meters away and lies down until they notice her, then comes running back for a treat. It wasn't really the plan but it's worked quite well.

calling him away every time he went up to say hello

Like every sodding thing with dogs it's the timing! These owners are not saying come here as their dog comes towards me or other dogs they simply call them back (or sometimes don't even need to do that) to keep them moving. What's very apparent is the bond between dog and owner, the dog is playful and friendly yet finds it's owner more appealing. My dog walker (very annoyingly) has this with my dog.

No doubt a lot of what i've learned is through the optics of having a reactive/powerful dog and i'm sure what i'm being told is tailored to our needs however it's far from an uncommon view.

Sounds good to me. Of all the stuff i try to train Nori it's by far the most rewarding thing for both of us when she's excited to come back to me.

Can see that maybe discouraging dogs from only interacting with one specific group of dogs that play in a specific way might possibly be worthwhile advice, but the idea (if I correctly understand what the behaviourists said) that you should always keep moving and not stop to let dogs play seems absolutely terrible.
I mean there's good dog play and bad dog play - I find 3 dogs playing often doesn't work that well, but bigger groups are fine if all the dogs are happy and if they're not, it's usually pretty clear. I guess it cuts down on risk/complication so can see why a behaviourist might suggest it, but I still think that's bad advice.
Am a bit dubious about behaviourists though. I talked to some guy who said his dog's whole personality had changed, was really stressed about it, they'd got a behaviourist in, etc. Discussing it a bit more, it seemed pretty clear the dog was around 10 months and was just a teenager. Ada's whole personality changed for a month or so around that age and she stopped listening, went and sat on her own in evenings and didn't want anything to do with us. She grew out of it shortly after. Was a bit horrified the behaviourist had agreed to take their money.

When I lived in Olympic Park there was a mound (next to BrewDog) where every dog owner would stand and let the dogs run wild. Unfortunately witnessed a Whippet chase off another dog down towards the A road in the pitch black. The owner didn't know what to do. Not much we could do either.

Gave it a wide berth.

Am not a fan or parks without railings. Even with a well behaved dog, there's always that chance they'll chase another dog out the park if they're really engaged in playing. I have a choice between Brockwell park and Clapham Common usually and almost always go Brockwell if i can for that reason. Plus it has a much better dog selection.

Nicer food options too.

Edited my original remark as it was too vague and wrongly suggested there was something wrong with people letting there dogs play in parks together. No behaviourist or anyone else for that matter has suggested i shouldn't let my dog stop and meet other dogs. What i was pointing out (perhaps not very well) was that some of the best behaved dogs i've met are still very playful however those interactions were generally briefer, and more transitional. That might be due to my dog or the relationship i want to have with her but it was intended as a suggestion of keeping the dog engaged with the owner whilst still giving it freedom.

I agree there is some crap out there when it comes to professional help. However the two we have worked with have been great and my unclear comments are a disservice to them.

It's funny that this has come up. Crumpet has just got back from a walk with a group she goes out with a couple of times a week. The walker said that she's started to become quite protective of the group as a whole and today got really funny with a dog outside of the group trying to get involved. She's not aggressive or reactive normally but was really telling this dog off for no good reason. Crumpet is usually pretty ambivalent and tolerant towards dogs she's not met before so there's clearly some sort of weird behaviour coming about as part of a "pack" that she's familiar with.
If anyone has any suggestions for how to discourage that sort of behaviour I'm all ears!