That Starmer fella...

Why is a waste of teachers' time?

They're already there in school working.

Not sure how to phrase this without sounding like a dick, but I spent some time in a primary school in Nicaragua, and all the kids brushed their teeth in the break.

I don't think it's that far fetched.

go chat to a teacher about their daily workload, then ask them if they want to add the thankless fucking task of making sure that a bunch of 5 year olds brushed their teeth properly. "They're already at work" is such fucking manager talk. "Oh, you're already doing a bunch of shit, much of which is skilled work that you're trained to do, and much of which is a bunch of add-on shit that you've been asked to do by some clueless executive type. What harm in asking you to do yet another bullshit task that you have no actual training or aptitude for? I'm a smart middle manager with no fucking clue about how to foster dignity in the workplace!"

I own a school-age 4 year old. The only way of ensuring that she has actually brushed her teeth properly is to do it myself. Multiplying that by 30? Fuck it, why not just get them to do shots of listerine? It would be just as fucking effective.

Most of the teachers I know would prefer to spend five minutes a day doing supervised brushing than watch their kids end up in agony in hospital because their teeth are rotting out of their heads.

I have a 4 year old and almost 3 year old. I have a number of friends who are teachers. I have no problem with the policy.

Well I’m sorry I brought this up. The real political polarisation is between the role of the state in personal hygiene, who the fuck knew?

Would you fellas send your kids to school without them having brushed their teeth?

If not, which section of the population is this aimed at?

I can’t imagine the ruckus of “poor fucking Timmy got told to brush his teeth this morning” at school

Most of the teachers I know are considering leaving the profession due to low pay and overwork. Can't say that I have any of them jumping for joy at the prospect of another thankless task to deliver.

Did lol btw

If you want it effective then the teacher needs to devote their attention to it so what gets bumped? Lesson planning, marking, teaching?

Or I guess it could be done at break time. Do teachers really need to go to the toilet?

It's not necessarily a bad policy so long as it is fully resourced but I am less than convinced it will be.

"Guys! We employed a bunch of people with consciences! We can get them to do a load of shit that they're not paid to do by leaning on their sense of morality! WAHEY!"

Again, classic manager attitude.

As the keeper of a just turned 6 year old, 5 minutes seem somewhat fanciful. I can't imagine rustling 30, five year olds, making sure they have clean brushes, tooth paste, and somewhere to rinse, spit and clean up in anything like that time.

Would you fellas send your kids to school without them having brushed their teeth?

On a breakfast club morning when it's my OH's turn to go into the office, and we're tight on time? Yes. Quite often.

I'd obviously try to do it. But if it's the choice between getting the kids teeth done or finalising the nursery jumper negotiation settlement with my 3yo so we can get out the door on time without a meltdown, often it does get missed. Sometimes I also forget too.

So if middle class over involved centerist dad's like me can't even consistently deliver on teeth, I can't imagine how lesser sections of the population manage.

what gets bumped? Lesson planning

Yes.

Or I guess it could be done at break time. Do teachers really need to go to the toilet?

Do all of them spend all break having massive slashes? The impression I got from my primary school aged kid was that break times are still supervised :) I guess in my head I imagine that if you build it in from reception, then it just becomes routine - like the way in my eg in Nicaragua all the kids just went out and brushed their teeth in their first break.

For the record, I am also in favour of paying them more and making their jobs less shit. Tbh I don't know enough about the day to day of the average teacher, but it always sounds to me like they need more people doing the job. I'm sure there are bullshit tasks like in most jobs, but generally it sounds like a quantity of resource issue.

"Guys! We employed a bunch of people with consciences! We can get them to do a load of shit that they're not paid to do by leaning on their sense of morality! WAHEY!"

The tories made the exact same arguments in the 1970s when they took free milk away from early years school children. But they didn't give a shit about teacher workload. They just wanted to make a political point and save a bit of money.

The teachers incidentally were against the removal of free milk, despite the additional overhead it took out of their day to distribute it.

I've a feeling if another leader came up with this policy you'd be in favour of it.

EDIT: And let's not pretend teachers aren't already doing this. From the BDA:

1. 83% of secondary teachers say they or their school have given
   students toothbrushes and toothpaste. 81% said there are children in
   their school who don't have regular access to supplies
   
2. 40% said this leads to students being socially excluded by their
   peers because of oral hygiene issues. Half report children isolating
   themselves. One third have witnessed bullying directly
   
3. 25% say children miss school because of poor oral hygiene. Three
   quarters (74%) said children who don't have regular access to oral
   health products have discoloured teeth. Half said children had
   noticeable tooth decay. 30% noted children in dental pain or
   suffering from halitosis
   
4. Nearly a third (31%) of teachers who witness poverty in the
   classroom said it affected their mental health. 1 in 4 are kept
   awake at night worrying about their students' wellbeing. 38% report
   feeling helpless.
   
   
   

The teachers incidentally were against the removal of free milk, despite the additional overhead it took out of their day to distribute it.

I think Teaching burden has changed in a lot of ways in the last 50 years

It would be better to just have a network of kids only dentists as part of the NHS that could treat the issues. I can imagine teachers doing a lesson or two on dental hygiene but the idea that teachers have the resources to do this as well is a joke!
Shall we get them to administer the measles jabs too?

Had to shitpost this from Holly V at PopCon..

Asked about her political leanings, she said: “I would say that everyone starts as a lefty and then wakes up at some point after you start either making money, working, trying to run a business, trying to buy a home, and then realise what crap ideas they all are. And then you go to the right.”

I think Teaching burden has changed in a lot of ways in the last 50 years

I think there's a big difference in the burden placed on teachers in early years schools vs secondary schools - and this is an early years school policy.

EDIT In fact now I google this, it applies to three- to five-year-olds so teachers would not be impacted.

Here's the actual proposal:

Labour will eliminate dental deserts and improve children’s oral health by:

1. Delivering 700,000 extra urgent dental appointments per year, so more children can see a dentist when they really need to.
   
2. Recruiting dentists to areas that need them with a targeted enhanced recruitment scheme.
   
3. Introducing a targeted national supervised toothbrushing programme for 3–5-year-olds in our fully funded breakfast clubs.
   
   

Difficult to disagree with that imo.

It's interesting, because I was much more to the right when I was younger. I wonder if part of that was Blair/Brown being the ones in charge so criticism was directed that way.

The events after the financial crash definitely had an impact, as did being on here tbh. Spending my days trying to help incredibly wealthy people get richer while watching the country I'd seen improving slowly getting shitter probably had one of the biggest impacts.

Overall though I'd say that what she's really missing, is that under 30 odd years of conservative orientated policies you've seen factors that might make people conservative disappear.

If Sunak's folks rocked up here today, they couldn't give him the same life chances - so who gaf about VAT on private school fees?

Even with a good job you're not getting a home before you're 30 - so do you want to free landlords from energy efficiency rules, or introduce rent controls?

You need to have a couple of years savings or good credit to weather the brutality of nursery fees - so do you want free market competition between providers, or to be able to afford decent day care?

The list goes on.

should be pointed out that the 700k figure is not just for children but everyone per year (edited to be factual),in 2023 there were 24.5million dentist appoint ments putting this around a 3% boost overall,

https://labour.org.uk/missions/nhs/
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-dental-statistics/2022-23-annual-report

it also includes no detail for the biggest barrier for recruiting - which is the dental cap does not pay enough to stop practices switching private

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-pledges-700-000-extra-appointments-and-supervised-toothbrushing-to-rescue-dentistry-12977506

3-5 years in breakfast clubs - in schools is quite funny, i was under the assumption this would be a return of classes i had in school around grade 3-5, but it's not, it's a reception class policy - which strikes me as again, limeted scope in juxtoposition to how the policy is pushed "classes in schools" which fooled even a treasurer of the labour party!

i don't think anyones argument is it's bad, just that it's very funny how limeted in scope it is to deal with the issue and is representitive of the masterful real politik gambits that so often overplay insufficient policy.

Overall though I'd say that what she's really missing, is that under 30 odd years of conservative orientated policies you've seen factors that might make people conservative disappear.

This is exactly it. People used to get more rightwing as they got older because they accrued more assets, and the purpose of the Tories was to protect those assets.

I work with 40 year old men with families and children and dogs, and white collar, high responsibility, well paid jobs, who still rent because between childcare and travel and rent increases and all the rest of it, they can't save up for a deposit. And even if they did, the deposit amount is receding away from them every time they get close.

That would not have happened ten or twenty years ago. And without it that nefarious bargain that the Tories strike with older people - whatever happens we'll protect your assets - disappears. Why would you vote for an asset protecting party when you've got no assets?

The Tories are eating their children. And their voter base is dying. And so are they. Good.

Indeed. Its a fair policy and many who criticised it (not necessarily here), didn't actually read the detail.

Hopefully we will eventually get to the point where all kids have access to free breakfast club from 8am which can include free breakfast, tooth cleaning, some exercise/ movement, any other shit that helps thier general welfare. Will also help working parents and those struggling. Maybe second term.