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We don't know how many Palestinians now want a genocide in Israel. We had a very rough idea before Oct 7, but everything has changed. Hamas is achieving its goal of forcing more and more people on both sides to participate in endless war.
I don't think any of us should try to judge either side. We don't know what it's like to live there. All we can do is observe.
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Also, note what he is actually saying here is “we [the Israeli right wing] have been saying we should do a genocide for ages and finally all you liberal lefties are agreeing with us”. It’s an explicit public acknowledgment that the Israeli right has a genocidal agenda that precedes events on October 7th.
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We don't know how many Palestinians now want a genocide in Israel. We had a very rough idea before Oct 7, but everything has changed.
You’re using textbook disinformation tactics again, and your baseless inference that 2.3 million near-rightless civilians are guilty of wanting genocide, and would somehow therefore legitimise statements from cabinet-level Israeli authorities calling for literal genocide, is abhorrent. I’m tempted to report your post but that’s not forum spirit and the mods have better things to do.
All we can do is observe.
I couldn’t disagree more. The international community works by diplomatic, legal and political means translated into economic, military and financial realities. If we speak up and they don’t listen, it’s up to us to put our money where our mouth is and reduce their access to our trade, military aid, financial systems, visa schemes, etc.
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You lot don't have much imagination do you? Try to put yourselves in the position of people on both sides who didn't seek this war but are caught in the middle of it. People with children. You'd be terrified. Would you still believe in the possibility of a negotiated peace, or would you want the other side wiped out?
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I have colleagues in Gaza (I work for an NGO)
The framing I see is different. It’s very simple. There are those that would do violence and those that suffer the violence.
Two groups of violent people have been waging war on non-violent people.
This violence will traumatise people today and subsequent generations. Some will want to perpetuate the violence. Others will be pushed in a direction that doesn’t involve violence.
Of course those that would do violence look to exploit and empower the people who want to fight to consolidate their current status of control over their own people.We are talking about two groups of people with nearly a century of mutual inter-generational trauma, backed by outside influence set upon each other.
There is no solution to this that comes through violence. This is obvious to many people on the ground
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It's quite surprising that someone with influence
I'd say it's shocking that the far right have come to power. One of the risks of coalition governments I guess.
Sadly I don't find it the least bit surprising that a far right extremist is proposing genocide. I also don't believe that it has any connection to the Hamas attacks beyond being an opportunist political move (like any other in history) . If anything the Hamas attacks are probably the best thing the far right could have wished for - "oh look, it's not the knock-on effect of filling posts with incompetent boot-lickers and missing the warnings, or years of Settler expansion that's the problem. It's the very existence of another group of people".
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You're mixing up different things. In the moment I've wanted to chase down and chop somones head off who's cut me up dangerously in a car.
That is not the same as me proposing a genuine policy change of beheading for risky driving.
I don't think from here you can make any uniformed assumptions about what people genuinely think.
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What’s funny is how hard you’re trying despite how transparent you are, except it’s not funny because it’s 2.3 million people, 47% of whom are under 18, who are being systematically brutalised and now being told they should be erased from the face of the earth, just for living where they were born (and where they’re fenced in and can’t readily leave).
Take a hard look at what you’re saying, and what you’re supporting. Netanyahu’s Govt. coalition want to eliminate 95% of a population, nearly half of which isn’t even 18 years old, and you’re supporting them with easily disproven claims. Why?
Promoting 1,080,000 kids being displaced or killed doesn't have shades of gray.
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Moshe Saada is a member of Likud. He’s not from a fringe right wing party, he’s from Netanyahu’s own party.
I mean, it’s not surprising that someone from Likud is explicitly genocidal, as that is pretty standard. But let’s not cast this as the fringes of Israeli society having disproportionate influence due to coalition or anything.
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What worries me is how much compelling evidence there is of Israel's genocidal mission, war crime after war crime, vs the sheer lack of evidence for Israel's claims about Hamas and Palestinians. E.g.:
The Haaretz article looks like it's been heavily edited now? This bit looks new, "due to the fact that many of the victims were killed that day, taken hostage or are in a state of psychological distress and unable to testify."
I also find it sickening how nations quickly came together to stop the Yemeni Houthis (power to them for doing something despite their relative poverty) in the Red Sea, but didn't do shit to stop a massacre of children and deliberate attempt at expulsion.
Birds of a feather flock together.
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I also find it sickening how nations quickly came together to stop the Yemeni Houthis (power to them for doing something despite their relative poverty) in the Red Sea, but didn't do shit to stop a massacre of children and deliberate attempt at expulsion.
If the houthis start a wider war by attacking international shipping many many more will die like they have in Gaza.
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the sheer lack of evidence
For anyone still entertaining the denial of sexual violence by Hamas,worth listening to Christina Lamb on the Media Show in december. She has investigated these types of crimes in conflicts around the world. Continued minimising or denial at this stage would start to seem insidious. Lamb aknowledges the huge amounts of misinformation and propaganda on both sides, and the rife and unhelpful whataboutery. (titled to be about Lockerbie, Lamb section comes first)
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Israel / Palestine
Posted by
@skydancer
Please let’s not equate all Palestinians with the armed branch of Hamas. That’s precisely the disinfo tactic that Israeli lobbyists are employing.