Israel / Palestine

I am sure that there are militants and religious figures in and associated with Hamas whose words seem to justify your statement but it is not clear that HAmas, as an organisation have these as their official stated aims. It really sounds like you are pushing an agenda here.

You're right, Hamas' stated aim is the destruction of the Israeli state. Since the clearly anti-semitic Hamas charter of 1988 the wording has been softened to remove explicit intent to eliminate all Jews. So yes my initial statement is an interpretation. Many, but not all, Jews believe the Israeli state is their only hope of existing safely, and so would take an intention to end that state as an existential threat. My broader point that there remains equal and irreconcilable hatred on both sides still stands.

You could also refer, for balance, to the widely commented on reference by Benjamin Netanyahu seeming to invoke genocidal violence. I am cutting and pasting a short text by Noah Lanard from mother jones here but it was widely reported on in the media and I don't think contestable.
'[Netanyahu said] in Hebrew in a recent address : “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.”

I'm well aware of the genocidal statements from Netenyahu, as well as even more bloodthirsty, right wing members of his coalition government. These views are shared by many hard right Israeli settlers. It's terrifying.
Many hard right Israelis and supporters of Israel also claim that the State of Palestine never existed, and therefore being Palestinian also doesn't exist as an identity. I see this stuff on social media and its really creepy. To deny people nationhood and autonomy is also genocidal.

EDIT on second thoughts, given the context, @velocio, could I report William.'s post as offensive and potentially an incitement of hatred.

what

i’m sorry if the consequences felt harsh. i did feel it needed flagging. I felt it was wilfully misleading, on the one hand, and on the other i think it feeds into narratives, given the context of the discourse around at the moment, that equate hamas with the nazis, which is a means of justifying the awful violence, de-politicising it and de-historicising it.

Which bit? I'm not sure anyone else sees it and you've not quoted anything.

Sexism in the IDF to blame for the Oct 7 intelligence failure: https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2023/12/israel-gaza-war-when-men-dont-listen-women?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1702370492-1

C4 News has finally covered the rape/mutilation story which other media covered a week ago. They've done a lot of work on verifying it. Warning, horrible: https://www.channel4.com/news/horrors-of-hamas-attack-on-israel-investigated

No surprises there, then.

i’m sorry if the consequences felt harsh

what consequences
didn't seem harsh just sort of eccentric

Really disturbing, but crucial the facts are known. The denial of atrocities deepens the suffering of survivors and escalates the conflict.

Followed the link, and did not want to go further than the lines of text mentioning police. Nothing more than police

These, I take it are the same police, from televised Isreali police conferences, before this information came out, that (my interpretation as I only read the sub titles) anyone wishing to protest Israel that the police official quite happily take then from Israel and leave them in Gaza with the locals.

Or was my mentioning the day, and time of report by the BBC not enough?

Also why not allow the UN to investigate? As I'm wondering why this has taken so many weeks (7 weeks , 49 days to come out) while other Israeli news propoganda about the tunnels took a lot less.

My point is the rape and mutilation is a war crime, why has this not come forward before now?

Also there is no justification for these actions. Comments of power etc di not sit well with me. As the aftermath is catastrophic and life long.

If you watch the video you'll see that C4 News has done a good job of verifying the story.

Suspect that I have my issues. Don't doubt that this happened. Which in itself is worrying to me, that my reaction is that this seem to be a common tactic on both sides.

There is no doubt that this war crimes and both sides criminals MUST be punished for committing these crimes.

The timing doesn't sit well with me, the possible use for propoganda especially as the UN don't seem to have been given access to the information so that fair trials can take place.

Just for the sake of avoiding further batshit run-to-daddy moments, here is the latest version of Hamas’ charter in case anyone wants to go to the original text.
https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/hamas-2017.pdf

reported

Oppressed and terrorised people want their oppressors and terrorisers fully removed, big surprise. Expecting anything else is some real centrist dad bullshit.

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Once again, understanding does not equal approving. Check your predjudice at the door.

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Islamophobia isn't a good look, you're showing yourself.

because people have said that Hamas is good, actually?

have they fuck.

some real centrist dad bullshit.

I mean, did you expect anything else from this place?

Not with the current crowd that seems to hang around this thread like a bad smell just like they did with the BLM one.

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Ok then well let's ask some questions. Why does Hamas exist and how did it come about? Would it exist if there wasn't an oppressor to fight against? If you can't make those connections but want to stick with the "but Hamas" line then go stick to watching Piers Morgan.

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I won't add anything further, but please do reflect on whether 'fully removed' is the type of language or sentiment that you think can contribute to a just and lasting peace in the real world.

You may notice I was talking about Hamas' stated goal, not my own, not something I endorse. Understanding that was kinda the whole point I was making.

I think you're islamophic from your posts in this thread, always assuming the worst of the Palestinian people (who are majority Muslim but not entirely so, before you say it, the point still stands) and from even this "misunderstanding", as if an expression of understanding why Hamas exists and thinks the way they do is somehow in itself an anti-Israel statement. Someone should go tell anyone who wrote an analysis on how Hitler came to power that they're actually all Nazis themselves.