Richard Sachs

It's not bs though is it? There is a reason that Sachs has a full order book and a successful career.

That's because of his "interest in elegance"

Where do you see RS prices? I only see tube sets on his website?

Fairly openly discussed on several US forums. $6500 frameset iirc.

That's a little under £5200 at the current exchange rate. But if you're UK based and having it shipped here, then with freight, duty and VAT, then the general rule is you end up paying the $ price in £.

Honestly I couldn't say as I've never ridden one and I'm not likely to.

But it doesn't really matter.

With all items that are that high up the price ladder, you're clearly buying an aesthetic/vibe/symbol/personal dream. It's not really about function at that point. I don't think many of us would seriously argue that an RS, however good it is, would be in any way objectively 'better' at transporting you from A to B at speed and/or in comfort than just about any properly fitted mid-range Giant/Spesh/Trek.

In the same way, I'd never spend £££ on a watch - I just don't 'get' expensive watches, and am perfectly happy with a £30 job - but I totally understand why buying a Rolex might symbolise success or the realisation of a personal dream to someone else. I'm sure an RS bike is no different.

As an aside, RS is one of the fairly small number of guys to have made a solid, long-term career out of framebuilding. Making handmade bicycles for a sustainable, full-time living is (evidently) not an easy thing to do. Whether or not it's marketing or craftsmanship or customer service (and it's likely a combination of all 3), then more power to him, tbh. I think it makes the bike world a more interesting place.

I agree you could buy a generic brand bike that would do the same job. I'm not sure I can add much to the luxury goods debate, save to comment that there is probably always a cheaper viable option for every purchase we make.

If I had this money to spend on a bike frame, I would buy the Richard Sachs custom frame over the S-Works Aethos though, despite the evident performance disadvantages. Mainly because I want to put money into the hands of a known individual to lead a decent life, rather than to a corporation.

My last comment is just to echo what you say about longevity. I can think of at least one erstwhile custom frame builder who liked to have a pop at Richard Sachs. Safe to say they aren't making a living building frames anymore.

Completely agree. I love it

All the ribbing aside, nice bikes are nice.
Elevating the art and craft should be celebrated and long may it continue.
Mankind has long been adorning and creating tools that transcend their primary function.
In a world where a pair of shitty plastic Nike x Tiffany green trainers are deemed desirable when their sophisticated jewellery designs were once world class it’s more important that people stick their hand in their pocket for an R/S frame.
ATMO

Hear hear.

I’m not into fancy watches but that comparison doesn’t seem apt. Really expensive automatic watches with several complications are actually incredibly complicated to design and build. I don’t believe an RS frame is superior to (or more complicated to build than) a frame built by any other renowned framebuilder. In that regard it’s more similar to hyped street wear which is x times more expensive than regular clothing although the material and labour cost is roughly the same.
Anyway, I always welcome interesting content on here, so let the OP do whatever pleases them.

Really expensive automatic watches with several complications are actually incredibly complicated to design and build

But don't actually tell the time any better

As in, an RS won’t get you faster from A to B than an entry level Giant, yes. But that still leaves the question why an RS is 6 times the price of most other hand built lugged frames à la Roberts, Varonha etc. And I guess that’s down to Hype or “a story” or whatever you wanna call it.

i genuinely thought this was just a normal sachs thread and not a current projects! @Jingle_Jangle cannot wait to spot this at Deptford market!

That was the point. It wasn't an exact analogy in terms of how complex something is to build. No-one buys a Rolex or similar because it's functionally superior to a Casio, or because it's better designed.

It was more that the price of this kind of product isn't about how well it functions, but more about emotional, psychological or (I don't think this applies to an RS) social significance. That's why to some people they're massively overpriced, and to others they are excellent value.

I also like that the OP is spending his money on something that is clearly significant to him. Downtube shifters, 80s gruppo, etc. I'm not implying personal questions or drawing inferences but it's not a showy build - S Works, Red, Enve etc. I'm willing to bet even a lot of keen cyclists wouldn't see anything beyond 'retro bike' if they saw it in a cafe. There's something quite cool about that.

Subbed for this discourse

🩵🩷💛🖤 ªṱⱮœ

wouldn't see anything beyond 'retro bike' if they saw it in a cafe

Because that's exactly what it is?

#rep for @Jingle_Jangle for bringing interesting content :)

Yes.

And no :-)

I don't think this discussion was intended 😬

I thought he wasn’t talking new orders?

Nagasawa.

I find it a bit rude that people are debating the merit in OP spending his money how he sees fit, in his own Current Projects thread. Sure maybe Sachs frames are overpriced but OP seems to understand that and wants to scratch the itch anyway. I totally get it. The bike is going to be glorious, can’t wait to see it.

What colour?

Blimey, such is the power of Richard Sachs, that he can bring @StandardPractice in from the cold...

I thought he wasn’t talking new orders?

I believe cleared his list a while back and now he opens his book once a year and closes it when he has 40 orders - a years worth of work.

:-)