Israel / Palestine

Welcome to the Israel govt's entire gameplan. Do a heinous thing, get called out for it, call them an antisemite to shut down criticism.

This Todays Worldview from the Washington Post talks about administrative detention, where Palestinians are being held without charge, often indefinitely. It seems that in the past few days, Israel has detained roughly the same number of people that they have released in hostage exchanges.

Detention without charge, isn't that a human rights violation?

But then a few western countries do this too.

Found today's episode of rest is politics on the potential of a two state solution with Tony Klug a good listen

NYT: Israeli military intelligence knew for years about a Hamas plan to overwhelm Israeli forces and towns, via paragliders, motorcycles, and boats. A veteran military analyst argued that a mass exercise in June 2023 lined up exactly with the content of plan ‘Jericho Walls’, down to a Quranic verse in the header and repeated during the exercise. A coronel dismissed her conclusions, calling the plan ‘aspirational’ for Hamas.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

It’s entirely possible this is a concoction meant to save Israeli intelligence’s credibility, and pin it all on a scapegoat. It would certainly help Netanyahu justify the high taxes Israelis have paid thinking it was for national security.

I can’t speak to Israeli civilians’ mentality, but I think it’s worse that the military knew and didn’t act: if someone pulled off an unprecedented tour de force, then maybe they could’ve gotten the better of anyone; however, if the military knew and chose not to follow up despite the lessons of the Yom Kippur war, then that’s a level of incompetence and betrayal of trust that can’t be forgiven.

Also- Egypt and Jordan both said they’d informed Israel about a Hamas attack, which Israel fervently denied. Deception or disorganisation, it doesn’t look good.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/protester-self-immolates-outside-israeli-consulate-atlanta-2023-12-01/

Israeli consul general’s message is facepalmingly dumb.

A few US law professors have identified significantly abnormal stock market plays betting against Israeli defence co’s just before several key dates in this latest Hamas tragedy/saga.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-investigates-possible-trading-knowledge-ahead-oct-7-hamas-attack-2023-12-04/

i feel not-right consigning this to this thread given if it didn’t exist i would put it in the news thread but am now scared of being told off by internet smartarse. Anyway, the video of Israeli soldiers harassing and then one of them shooting point blank a palestinian street vendor with obvious additional needs/disability in the occupied west bank is fucking horrific. reading up on israeli military theory, it’s not as simple as asking ‘was he under orders or a rogue psychopath or shit head?’ the army has a ‘swarm’ strategy that gives sovereignty to soldiers to act independently

Harrowing reports of Hamas atrocities coming out today. Hard to process. This article doesn't detail some of the worst things broadcast on R4 just now https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

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There's more detail of the rapes and mutilations in a new story on the BBC site. It's horrific. Don't read it unless you think you can cope. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67629181 You'd have to say that Israel is reclaiming the narrative with this. Maybe it's even worse than burying children under rubble in Gaza. We're plunged back into the worst horrors of the Balkans and WW2.

The Israelis shot down an Iranian sourced ICBM, launched in Yemen, in space today/yesterday. A bit of a flex in terms of the neighbours.

As in the news, there was not just Hamas there, there were a few others groups. Hence the hostages being held by different groups.

Also Israel have been raping and threatening rape against detainees and their families (arrested people but not charged, charges are very flimsy) families for years. There has even been an Isreali guard that was impressed for that. Just the one and israel did not announce the arrest, charges and imprisonment.

Seems strange that this news has appeared now, the timing is worrying to me.

There is so many bits of 'news' that seem to be untrue or backing up claims feels there is a pr war with the bigger budget winning.

Scuds are ICBM.
These rockets were allegedly scuds. Are these that accurate as launches in the past weren't that accurate. Patriot shield has caught them.

It's a horrific world in which we are forced to equate raping and mutilating women with burying children under rubble.

How can there be "winners" in this?

for further grim historical context, Thomas Pynchon's novel V includes a scene, likely to be broadly accurate of events of the time, in which a German soldier rapes an African girl and during the rape asks her whether she would like to be killed by bayonet or pistol at the climax of the act.

Terrorism by right wing Zionists of the British military command in mandated Palestine did not stop the Zionist cause.

Royal David hotel, for those that want to look it up.

What is grim is that french women were raped by allied (US?) Soldiers think there were 4000 or more raped in s year 44-45.

Yeah, men can be awful, and men who are desensitised to killing people, may well be more inclined to do other horrific things.

How can there be "winners" in this?

Presumably Sinwar thinks he is winning. He wanted a massacre in Gaza to reduce Israel's international support and start a permanent war. Did he order the rapes in order to provoke a bigger massacre? He's going to have dead Palestinian martyrs in the news for the next 10 years.....what's next in his grand plan?

Agreed.

Presumably Netanyahou also thinks he's winning, or going to win.

What's next in his grand plan?

Apologies for the cheeky edit but it is an equally valid question.

Scuds are definitely not 'InterContinental' Ballistic Missiles. According to wikipedia the max range is less than 500 miles.

I suspect it not just the individual rapist but the military indoctrination/ mentality as a whole that makes rape more prolific among armed forces.

Being conditioned to achieve a set objective including by using utmost physical force against a dehumanised enemy who opposes you, well, perhaps it translates into achieving the goal of their sexual desire even if it includes overcoming physical defences.

Additionally:

• most militaries are only barely bothered by most of what happens to their enemy’s civilian population;
  
• some men joining the military are modern ‘human brutes’;
  
• soldiers get moved around a lot and commonly see how consequences don’t always follow perpetrators across borders, especially with difficult situations to prove such as rape.