Keeping your home warm / heating / energy crisis / insulation etc

I thought most boilers self modulated based on water temp in the heating loop and whether a signal call was there. What additional value does an external modulation provide?

My Drayton wiser system was a piece of piss to install. It just dropped into the standard controller back plate. I left the hallway thermostat on full until I had the time to remove it.

Yep, apologies, modulating was the word I was looking for.

Bit of background from Tado here, good news is you can buy the better EU ones from their shop. Their explanation is that people in the UK were too stupid to use them properly, so stopped offering them...

https://twitter.com/tado/status/1584453780413612035?lang=en

tado°
@tado
A Quick Thread on Modulation! 🧵🪡

1/9 Modulating thermostats are important. Whether smart or not, they bring efficiencies to your boiler, and your bills. They do this using 'digital' interfaces to connect to the boiler, like eBus, or the most common interface called OpenTherm.

2/9 A few years ago at tado° we made a really cool thing called 'multibus' - Whatever interface your boiler uses, we built a multibus to translate it, which means we have HUGE compatibility with boilers to offer modulation!

3/9 We don't talk about this much, but we should! Modulating thermostats do really smart things like load compensation or weather compensation, meaning you can do small adjustments of heat, rather than on/off full blasts of heat every time you call for heat.

4/9 Modulation brings boiler efficiency, as well as lower energy consumption and lower bills. There's lots of good resources on this subject from folks like
@HeatGeek

5/9 In Europe, all tado° Smart Thermostats support modulation, whether they're our Wired or Wireless models (yep, that specifically includes OpenTherm)

6/9 In the UK however, we saw something unusual: a very small amount of Wireless tado° Smart Thermostats were being installed using modulation. Sadly, it no longer made sense for us to sell these types of interfaces in the UK due to this low number of installs ...

7/9 ...that took advantage of the modulating interfaces. (Our Wired Thermostat in the UK still has OpenTherm and modulating controls though, and always has done!).

However…

8/9 …If you’re in the UK and wish to purchase the tado° Wireless Smart Thermostat with modulation you can purchase it here from the online tado° professional shop.

Their explanation is that people in the UK were too stupid to use them properly, so stopped offering them...

Reads more like the installers couldn't be arse to fit them properly?

I thinks it's more that for retrofits wiring in databus is more of an arse or most boilers than a straight swap or they are installed on boilers that don't have the capability?

That's the boiler that does that, its not really anything to do with the smart control. Its basically just a switch!

The boiler modulates based on target system temp.

The controller can also tell the boiler to adjust the target temperature based external factors like weather. Tado seems to be saying that this capability is rarely wired in in the U.K.

When I looked in to this it seemed lack of compatibility and lack of awareness of it both on the consumer side and the installer side was to blame for it rarely being used.

Apparently internet based weather compensation is a bit crap compared to sensors that apparently exist. But that’s a whole other issue.

Ah, so the UK wired version does support modulation!

Thank you for the info, much appreciated.

What are the benefits to the wireless version vs wired? Just the ability to freely move the thermostat controller?

Pretty much. Obviously a wireless one can be placed wherever, the sensor being in a fixed location, probably in the boiler cupboard isn’t going to be as representative of the house temp of a wireless one you can place where you hang out.

Just bought the EU wireless kit and a load of radiator valves with Black Friday discounts.

Thanks all for the advice!

I have a load of PIR insulation board that I picked up for free that I’ve been planning on fitting between my ground floor joists to insulate the floor. I have access from below in the basement/crawl space so it should be relatively straightforward and I hope it’ll make a difference to warmth. Now I’ve got around to starting the job though, I’m second guessing.

Is it a good idea or am I setting myself up for potential damp issues with the joists? The space below seems to have fairly good ventilation with multiple vent bricks, I’m just worried I’ll cram this PIR around the joists and make them rot somehow.

A quick google finds some install guides.

The one I've read - linked above- insists that the PIR is fitted tight to the joists and supported using battens or brackets. Where a tight fit isn't possible, spray foam is used to close and seal the gap.

Suspect the answer to this is fit em really, really tight thus sealing them off, or leave a fuck off massive gap for ventilation which will reduced efficiency.

I’m looking to internally insulate the solid brick Victorian walls in a couple of our bedrooms; have been advised that using wood-fibre boards stuck on using full-surface breathable adhesive is essential, as opposed to PIR/EPS backed plasterboard attached via dot & dab.

Any tips on type and supplier of wood-fibre boards for this purpose? So much out there… or are they all basically the same and I should choose based on price?

I hear pavatex recommended but not sure if it's the best for your purpose. Generally, natural building materials suppliers are knowledgeable and give advice, so calling a few might be your best option.
Noticed this place has free online courses, including on internal wall insulation - https://woodfibreinsulation.co.uk/courses/

Suppliers you could try: Back to Earth, Ecomerchant, Unity lime, Mike Wye, Ty Mawr

Thank you, very helpful.

Do your joists already have signs of damp/rot? Or do they already run in close proximity to anything that can cause water to wick/condense onto them? Are they treated, or do you plan to treat them?

Timber needs to breathe, but having 1+ face exposed would be adequate. I'd check the moisture level on the cold side of the timber now, in February and at the height of summer and would consider how to improve it if particularly bad (dry rot begins in timber with 20% moisture content).

There are two approaches, but there are pros/cons to both. It's not always essential to do either. Note that dot & dab is a fast/cheap/bad approach for insulating internally: thermal bridging, poor sound proofing values, potential condensation risks on foil and within low-airflow areas.

Working with the existing mass using direct application fibre board will limit you to ~60mm of fibre board, or a U-value of ~0.5 W/m2K (based on a double run of 102.5mm bricks), but on the plus side you would have few concerns regarding moisture ingress over time. You would be prioritising permeability which can be critical for pushing back moisture levels within wet/dark environments, or for ensuring the long-term health of heritage buildings.

Working against the mass by building a new sub-structure (NOT dot & dab!) means you will have to carefully calculate your dew point and consider ways of bringing down the moisture level within your ventilated cavity, but on the plus side you will have no limit to the amount of PIR you could use - but only if cavity moisture is modeled/managed effectively. You would be prioritising performance/utility and would accept some external moisture ingress risk as you already have dry/sunny elevations in summer.

Thank you, excellent post.

We will deffo not be fitting to battens, only direct application of ~40mm wood-fibre panels. Will just have to see how it works out!

“PIR/EPS backed plasterboard attached via dot & dab.”
Most would use foam adhesive plus mechanical fixings (less fixings needed with foam 3 per board not 9) easier and faster than dot n dab.
Not that it matters in your case.

I'm using woodfibre batts mitigate this. If there's moisture, the woodfibre can absorb it and the well ventilated subfloor will dry it out over time.

With a hygrophobic material like PIR then 100% of the moisture present is transferred onto the joists.

Bay window behind plantation shutters - trickle vent open or closed to reduce condensation?

are you getting much condensation if you leave them closed? Is the room warm enough with them open?

Need to bulk buy loft insulation, looking online it seems that Wickes/B&Q are the cheapest. Is that legit or is there somewhere else I can find reasonably priced insulation. Pricing Knauf Earthwool 200m at about £25 a roll at both these places. Anyone know of anywhere cheaper?

@gillies I feel like you've done some insulation buying in the past! Any tips.

When we did ours last year I was surprised to find that B&Q was the cheapest for normal Knauf, I imagine prices are controlled tightly by distributors. I did see a literal barnful of it available on ebay that some guy was selling which probably fell off the back of a lorry.

Check ebay.

I think Homebase was around 4.25per M2, BQ 4.55, Wickes 4.63.

I haven't bought any earthwool stuff sadly - just natural fibre stuff (woodfibre).

It might not be useful for you but maybe for others - I found that shipping was significantly cheaper if I rang them up and asked. Typically a local (ish) warehouse provided a quote for a pallet (or more) at between £100 and £150. I got it for £40 on my first order and £25 on my second.