Israel / Palestine

The number of Palestinian children killed in less than a month is more than 5x the number of Ukrainian children killed in over a year and a half.
(My bad, it’s more than 6x)

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-2-2023-6a398d4aeba979aef24960efc31eb772

The Irish government being quite strong (strong for a western country).

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/1103/1414424-ireland-middle-east/

Of course she does......

Makes perfect sense

"I strongly believe, like any state, Israel has a right to defend itself, has the right to go after Hamas, so they can not do this again," Mr Varadkar said.

This is the problem though isn't it?

What is defending itself? Killing Hamas fighters once they are in Israel's? Yep that's pretty uncontroversial. Striking sites which launch missiles? That's fine, as long as they're not in populated areas, which they are. Etc.

Likewise what does going after Hamas look like?

It's just as much of an empty political statement as anyone else's really.

The elephant in the room is Netanyahu, he knowingly let Hamas build influence and arms/money in Gaza to destabilise the territory. This conflict is what he hopes will keep him in office but I can see the mood changing amongst his closest allies, I'd love to be a fly on the wall. Senior Hamas leadership is based in Qatar, any commander they kill will be replaced, every person killed has a brother, son, uncle, father that will be even more pissed. Someone bombed my family? Sure I'll listen to you about getting revenge.

There is no end to this conflict through war. Looks like there is some comms getting out of gaza now and I don't think it's going perfectly for the IDF, if I was part of the invasion i'd be shitting myself.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17mg5s3/hamas_combatants_plant_explosive_charge_on/

Netandyahoo and Israel actions are the reason there are the freedom fighters.

Watch the BBC news this evening. The pictures and stories are shocking. No free speech in Israel. When the head of the Israeli police says if you have sympathy for the civilians and want to protest he will arrange a bus to take you there.

Arabs are being arrested and a Jew, has been arrested several times his house ransacked. Listen to his telephone call.

Videos show groups in a university in Israel chanting kill all Arabs/death to all Arabs.

This is on the BBC news at 6 on bbc

Now I now see so many similarities to Nazi, of taking away free speech, calls to murder/kill, educational institutions curtailing free speech I cannot be the only one.

Oh and graffiti of free Palestine (on a central London building with no Jewish or Israeli connection), is now a hate crime, not just on a bridge on Golders Green.

Please go and watch the 6pm radio 1 news.

Now I now see so many similarities to Nazi, of taking away free speech, calls to murder/kill, educational institutions curtailing free speech I cannot be the only one.

nazi comparisons are not helpful and are anti-semitic.

the news today is increasingly traumatic, but we should not tolerate anti-semitic tropes.

similarities to Nazi

Nazism is (they still exist, thankfully not in full power) a very particular take on fascism. Others here will know more than I do on the subject, but the events you’ve listed seem to indicate a slide towards authoritarianism and potentially fascism.

Nazi comparisons get bandied about. Is it anti-semitic in this case because its aimed at the actions of the Israeli state?

.

Yes. It’s a protected definition.

Thanks

Have you watched the 6pm BBC news from today?

So can we go through the United Nations sanctions against Israel under the human rights violations (only been around since 2005) there are less than 50 but make up more than 50% of the total sanctions.
Even looking at the UN resolutions (the ones that weren't voted down) against Israel, is there any regimes that have done similar?

Not sure it ever went away....

Different groups have a difference of opinions on that, so am wondering where this protected definition is. One of the things that a few other Jewish sects disagree about Israel's actions and they are label anti semetic. How does that work?

My comment is not on the policy, it is the actions. The head of Israeli police comments on Gaza sympathisers of he would arrange a bus and take then to Gaza. On the BBC 6pm news today.

People seriously go watch the 6pm BBC One news from today the 3rd.

We can both decided who is who by using the timescale of the UK Tory party labelling Nelson Mandela a terrorist. So at the very least in 27 years time. We can discuss wiggle room.

“Protected” was the wrong term.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-definition-of-antisemitism

Polite reminder that Israeli defence contractors developed Pegasus and other fun hacking tools. Not important to most of us, but it might be relevant if you’re corresponding with activists or people in/from the region.

Ah Pegasus... haven't the company been investigated by Amnesty International due to use of the software on human rights activists/legal advisors worldwide?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/world/middleeast/israel-bomb-jabaliya.html

Two 40ft craters left by the two 2,000lbs bombs that Israel dropped on ‘a densely packed Gaza neighbourhood’ earlier this week (others have said it was a refugee camp).

40ft is approx 7 adult cyclists, wheel to wheel.

1 Attachment

https://www.justgiving.com/page/cyclists4palestine

This rad raffle (raising £ for Medical Aid for Palestinians) ends at 12 noon GMT today so you have about 90 minutes to donate….

The prize bundle is BIG!

Thoughts from a friendly discussion today:

-Israel is not coming across as a country with which NATO countries should share nuclear capabilities or know-how.

-Ukraine clearly honed their comms style to appeal to a western audience. It seems Israel didn’t have any such planning in place for a possible war.

-Israel isn’t giving any context for their actions. They aren’t giving numbers on Hamas fighters killed, or the profiles of commanders killed, or even how many attackers actually invaded Israel a month ago. This plays to Hamas’ hand because all we can see is the horror of civilian casualties. I’m not saying that it would excuse these gross numbers of dead civilians, but in the battlefield of public opinion, which can shape geopolitical realities in the Middle East that later lead to worse conflicts, they’re letting Hamas indirectly control the narrative.

Misplaced the source but one of the big intl news agencies quoted a Hamas leader saying they had 40,000 fighters in Gaza. That’s half the size of the UK Army. Afaik Israel hasn’t said anything to help the public understand the scope of the threat they face (beyond the horrifying images of the 7/10 slaughter)

-Ukraine clearly honed their comms style to appeal to a western audience. It seems Israel didn’t have any such planning in place for a possible war.

Israel aren't analogous to Ukraine in this situation. They are the other guys.

Edit: I agree on the lack of context - it's a completely polarised narrative:

Hamas were using those ambulances to transfer weapons.
Hamas have a strategic base under that hospital.
We told all these civilians they should leave (to where?)