Israel / Palestine

kept on saying the BBC were siding with Hamas

Did he mention the six BBC reporters taken off the air for pro-Palestine tweets?

My opinion here is that yes, Israel is going for the long-term here... they'll force the population South and thin them out, and fear is a powerful weapon to get people moving so whether or not they targeted the hospital or not is irrelevant as it creates more fear on the ground.

Israel will shrink the size of Gaza by first declaring an increased no go area inside Gaza as "to protect our people against being taken hostage we need to create a buffer zone", and then once the land is empty Israel will increase building on that land, the expansion of settlements.

They have done this repeatedly for decades, it is nothing new. But areas like Gaza are so densely populated that they've never been able to succeed with this strategy there. Netanyahu's funding of Hamas to force this situation has created an opportunity for a massive land-grab (relative to their past progress on Gaza), and so they will take as much of that land as possible whilst the window of opportunity is open for them.

The Israeli government and right wing do not care about the human suffering, they do not value non-Jewish lives, so long as progress towards a one-state Israel and the end of Palestine is achieved.

This is all but a single step towards that, it doesn't need to achieve everything this time around, as the past created many opportunities, and the future will create more. So long as every opportunity is taken, and they always take as much land as they can and never give it back, it's progressing the right direction and is worth it in their opinion.

They certainly do not care what the international community think, so long as evangelical Christians in the USA who believe in end time prophecy keep supporting this madness.

I’m not disagreeing with you!
I was making a point that after denying involvement, it might come to light in the future that there were Hamas targets at the hospital.

Neither bombing a hospital on purpose, bombing a hospital by accident, nor bombing it knowing it was full of human shields look good.

Videos and images circulating now appear to show very little damage to hospital buildings, instead look like about ten cars burned out in the hospital car park, with no obvious bomb crater.

If this is right, seems to add credibility to the Israeli version of the story and suggest that the original story of a hospital 'destroyed' and 500 people dead is greatly overblown. Which would obviously be a very good thing

Expect one way or another, the truth will become clearer soon

Eg.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical

Thanks... I think. Sounds like a nut. Grim

I did not know that 😑

It'll be on BBC Sounds tomorrow (possibly later today?), I'll try and link it when it appears

There was another one on 5Live giving precisely the same line, only female and seemingly more softly spoken, if equally hardline. I only lasted about a minute before switching off.

Netanyahu's funding of Hamas

Wait, what?!

So you think Israel = Netanyahu. Even though his days are numbered. And he's being blamed by his own people for strengthening Hamas and causing the invasion. And there are millions of left wing Israelis who want a two state solution.

I've mentioned that twice recently. It's been in the Israeli papers frequently. Have a look at Haaretz or the Times of Israel. Here's just one of many articles https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-11/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-needed-a-strong-hamas/0000018b-1e9f-d47b-a7fb-bfdfd8f30000 https://archive.ph/hYI8Z

Thanks I will check the link

Colonel Peter Lerner of the IDF starts from 2:16

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001rh0d

It seems to be a trend on here.

Palestine ≠ Hamas
Israel = Israeli right wing and Settler nutters

As long as generalisations go one way it's aok 👍

Israel have released recording of operatives suggesting it was a failed missile strike.

https://x.com/israel/status/1714545680562184434?s=46&t=zRLQ2HZpRJjXs9_MLQOitA

Also new day time pictures and videos of the hospital appear to show damage inconsistent with the death toll.

Obviously all of it could be doctored, with voice actors etc.

Pushes things towards the Israeli narrative.

Netanyahu's been in office for 16 years. I hope and pray that when he's kicked out, the majority in Israel will choose a fresh approach and accept that extremism will never pay off.

Ignore the British press and politicians and keep checking the Haaretz opinion section https://www.haaretz.com/opinion It's great. You can bust the paywall with this if required https://archive.ph/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Is it whataboutism to point out the irony in accusing one party of doing something that is literally the other party's express policy?

So you think Israel = Netanyahu

no, I think the actions of the government are owned by the government, and governments are known by their leadership. It's right to hold leadership in any country to account, and to call out their bad actions and bad motives. it's not an apples to applies comparison, but the UK isn't without our own examples of a govt acting in a way that the people disagree with to a horrific humanitarian outcome, i.e. Blair govt going to war in Iraq despite the largest protests the UK has ever had.

one can definitely call out the leaders for their shit.

Palestine = country that existed before, has 2 separate governments in the 2 different areas, is being put under apartheid by invaders, historically held people of at least 3 different religions.

Israel = country founded on the principle of being an ethno-state and taking the land off an existing country. Settler nutters may the the extreme end but they're intrinsically linked with the foundation of Israel.

If I punch you in the face repeatedly, get backed up by my stronger mates and they stop anyone else intervening, and you then punch me back a fraction as hard, is it right to say you and I are just as bad as each other?

Palestine = country that existed before

Did it?

I mean, yeah? That's a pretty easy fact to look up.

I dunno, that sounds pretty far from any kind of serious analogy to the situation to me so who knows

Mandatory Palestine isn’t what is currently Palestine and wasn’t really a country, with British mandate to figure out what should be done with the area.

It could I suppose have been called Mandatory Israel, though that would have caused all the Arab/Muslim states to immediately attack.