Israel / Palestine

Out of interest, have any UK cycling personalities or framebuilders etc. stuck their neck out in support of Palestine? Would be great to support them.

Any recommendations for organisations to donate to to help the humanitarian response in Gaza?

I agrée that they’ve been getting away with murder for ages, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the hospital bombing was them.
Don’t they normally either accept responsibility (to no consequences) or refuse to comment? In this case they have specifically announced it wasn’t their missile.

Try the BDS site

They've also explicitly claimed to have not used white phosphorus in Gaza but open-source data clearly rebuts that, so not sure this line of thinking holds up.

Don’t they normally either accept responsibility (to no consequences) or refuse to comment?

No. When they do particularly heinous shit they normally lie about it and then admit responsibility months later when no one cares any more. Standard Fog of War Bullshit.

I donated to Medical Aid for Palestinians - https://www.map.org.uk/
There's also the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund - https://www.pcrf.net/

Palestinian Red Crescent Society / The Red Cross are on the ground and always worthy of a donation

Fair enough.

Blowing up a hospital in Gaza doesn’t seem to have any strategic value though?
Especially with the international condemnations that was sure to follow.
IDF is more calculated than that?

Maybe it will transpire that there was in fact a missile battery and a weapons cache hidden in the hospital.

A thousand excuses for the IDF eh? On a serious note, they’re flattening Gaza to the ground so a hospital is just collateral damage to them.

Blowing up a hospital in Gaza doesn’t seem to have any strategic value though?

If your strategy is to expel the inhabitants of the land you want, then it's pretty effective.

That strategy might become difficult if Israel becomes attacked on all sides and have their resources stretched.

I’m just trying to make sense of it all.
I don’t think Israel currently deserve the benefit of the doubt, and not seeking to excuse them for all the other shit. But some evidence suggests they didn’t specifically do this.
As it stands, whether they did it or not is irrelevant, as all their neighbours and most of the international community assume they did and condemned their attack.

Hezbollah/Iran look likely to use it as a reason to attack tomorrow, I don’t think they are the people to fairly defend the rights of, or liberate the Palestinian people.

The Israeli consulate in Istanbul has been overrun.

https://twitter.com/D_abdulkader/status/1714418728555655562

This is why the US and Britain have moved warships into the area. To 'discourage reprisals'.

Does genocide need strategic value? They want to wipe the Palestinians off the map, be it by them leaving the country or dying.

So you're saying Israel would do it deliberately, despite the huge damage it's done to their cause and the risk to Jews worldwide.

Thats their bread n' butter no? The Israeli government live inside a different reality as far as I can tell. They have, and have had, impunity for decades for all the mad shit they get upto in the name of "self defence".

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/07/israelgaza-attacks-medical-facilities-and-civilians-add-war-crime-allegations/

It is kind of ironic that you make this point repeatedly about Israel's intentions when that is actually Hamas's view of Israel

Anyone else just hear the IDF spokesperson on the Today programme? Fucking hell

I'm not going to be drawn into a discussion with people who say that the Israeli government's policy is to kill all Palestinians. You'll have to find someone else. If you do, you'll need to explain how Israel can continue this policy and wipe out the remaining 5.5 million.

For the people here with open minds, there's not yet a conclusive argument about who was responsible. If either side did it deliberately their international support will be weakened. Biden's visit has already been undermined. It could have been accidental. It's normal for bombs and missiles to miss their target in a war.

Nope - what did they say?

They were born in Gaza.

Just completely shouted Mishal Husain down, kept on saying the BBC were siding with Hamas. That Hamas butchered Israeli babies in their beds (?) so how could they be trusted at all. That it was a Hamas mis-fire that hit the hospital and it was proven that it wasn't the IDF.

Sounded like a total roid fiend, certainly amped up on conflict.

Their International support would be very marginally weakened for a day or two. Potentially.

Maybe it will transpire that there was in fact a missile battery and a weapons cache hidden in the hospital

You still wouldn’t shell a bloody hospital!