Israel / Palestine

What?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

The Palestinian Arab leadership rejected any 2 state solution/division, so got organised to go to civil war to form a state (without Israel) And then with support from Egypt, Transjordan, Syria and Iraq, (who had all voted against the partition plan) continued the war in 1948.
Egypt conquered the Gaza strip, and Transjordan annexing West Bank, expanding their own land. Israel got both of those in 1967.

To this day, though 55 UN member states still don't recognise Palestine, 28 UN member states don't recognise Israel.

Not a case of Palestinians being lazy.

If history had gone another direction, and say the first Arab Israel war went the other way, I'm not sure Palestine would have had it's own state anyway, as Egypt, Transjordan, Syria would have taken over, expelled the Jews and split the land spoils for themselves.

To the victor goes the spoils...

Other factors in the alternative history are Hashemite v Saud, Alawite baathism v the commies, the CAR etc.

Don't think any alternative history would have ended up with harmonious relations in the Levant region for very long.

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-10-13/israeli-president-says-gazans-could-have-risen-up-to-fight-hamas

Glossing over the statistics that 44% of the Gaza population is 14 or younger, and born after Hamas came into power. That 75% of the population is under 25, so none of them voted Hamas into power.

The nature of isreals retaliation will see that the membership and support will get a large increase.

Or the Arab uprising hadn't happened and the ottoman empires strength probably would have changed the outcome of ww1.

Amnesty International are claim Israel are using white prosperous ammunition! From twitter.

Popular Front had videos of that a few days ago

The rage of all the teenage boys who have seen their parents and siblings killed because they were born in Palestine…

That’s not going to be a problem in 5-10 years time…

The Onion nailing the approach of most Western media outlets:
https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505

Agree with that mostly.

Though this was a weak point

"How about if we said we believe the loss of innocent life is wrong no matter what the nationality? That would also result in people getting mad at us."

Depends if the image of a murdered isreali baby is broadcast, yet bodies of children and babies in itu dieing in Palestinaian hospatals with no power does not get the same coverage.

I wish I could....
But how can I...

https://youtu.be/w28Ldatj3BY?si=QcYjCMZ5jQTlPMZe

white prosperous ammunition

Just a fantastic Freudian slip/autocorrect, and sums up what 90% of commenters, myself included, are deploying in trying to get our heads around this.

Holy fuck, I missed that.

Should I edit or leave to show how damaged/wrong my brain is.

Leave it and blame AI for thinking it knew what you meant 🙂

Once the rightful occupiers have left, the invaders take over?

Seems like a moment like the Spanish civil war. The powers that be (Counties and Christian faiths supported the right wing) those from the UK/Eire that fought with the freedom fighters did not get a welcome on returning. Even tho the international brigade members were right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67102956

Muhannad Tutunji, Haitham Abudiab and their BBC Arabic team were driving to a hotel when their car was intercepted.

They were dragged from the vehicle - marked "TV" in red tape - searched and pushed against a wall.

Mr Tutunji and Mr Abudiab said they identified themselves as BBC journalists and showed police their press ID cards.

While attempting to film the incident, Mr Tutunji said his phone was thrown on the ground and he was struck on the neck.

I thought this was well put
https://alexmassie.substack.com/p/the-tyranny-of-history

Also this
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/a-left-that-refuses-to-condemn-mass-murder-is-doomed.html

Depressingly large number of people chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ on the Save Palestine march I stumbled into in central London today.

I thought this was well put

Not so sure.
" ... For if Jews cannot live securely in a Jewish state, where might they find a home? ..."
How about they accept a future in an ethnically and religiously neutral state with equal human rights for all citizens?

I think part of his point is that (in his view) a one-state solution basically winds up as one or the other side discriminating against the other to the point it becomes a mono-ethnic state, ergo Jews need a Jewish state.

It’s not logic that I’m entirely comfortable with but I also see more evidence to support his view than I see evidence that a happy multi-ethnic state is possible there.

But that’s also why I added the other article for balance.

🇵🇸 🇵🇸 🇵🇸

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I dipped into the second article. Came over as seriously weak journalism, if it is journalism and not just a teenager's blog.

Yeah, there are some crazy people out there who claim to be leftists.

So what?

Depressingly large number of people chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ on the Save Palestine march I stumbled into in central London today

That is properly shit