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To continue this-
I am Palestinian. I accept therefore that my writing below will be full of my own bias.
It is also incredibly rare for me to talk about the conflict, however, I cannot contain my sadness at the events over the weekend.Lets start with 3 basic, undeniable facts
The targeting of civilians is abhorrent, and always has been, regardless of perpetrator.
Israel and its people have a right to exist.
Palestine and its people have a right to exist, and not have basic human rights denied.-Hamas’ actions are indefensible-
This is undeniable, but we cannot take these recent events in a vacuum. As such the history is important.
I would suggest that corollaries of this action are evident within the creation story of Israel, and this was in no small part aided by the British. The Stern Gang and the Irgun are two examples of similar organisations with a history of against civilians during that formative period. Atrocities since have continued, on both sides, and have more-often than is acceptable been white-washed with a narrative of terrorism vs legitimate action. This same rhetoric is clear in review of conflicts historically, elsewhere.
-Many wrongs do not make a right, but ideological narratives are borne of these events.-It does not change the fact these tactics are abhorrent. Knowledge of the history contextualises the desire for action. This is added to by a collective comfortable ignorance in the West to the events within Palestine and Israel. That ignorance is perceived clearly by Palestinians, in Gaza, in the West Bank and in Diaspora. From the Western PoV- it is easy to follow and support the eloquent, racially similar [ie European, White] voices that drive the narrative of a modern state vs the Oriental [other] where as in the EU’s report (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/201110/20111027ATT30536/20111027ATT30536EN.pdf) advancement of society requires a nation state with security. These same perceptions are shown by comments within this thread about perceived backwardness of a society that has been famously matriarchal, with higher than average attendances of university by women, and by leading Islamist Feminism (https://vc.bridgew.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1733&context=jiws). Add to this a change in meaning of a word [Semite] that reveals our shared racial history. A race continually denigrated and subjugated through history regardless of religion.
(this is not a plea to return the use of that word, just an example of the power of language)
The sad irony of this- the loss of our shared cultural heritage, and the subsequent unwillingness to discuss our shared demonisation, destroys me.
I am lucky to have close Israeli friends, privileged by living out of Palestine or Israel, and we often share both joy and sadness over our shared traditions, similar family structure and culture. I dream of a day we look to our shared likeness, beliefs, and history of subjugation to attempt conciliation.It does feel slightly cheap to lessen the imprisoning, the random acts of violence against Palestinians for the past 70 years to lower import than the than the abhorrent events of this weekend. This graph:
Reference: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/14/5898581/chart-israel-palestine-conflict-deaths
shows the mismatch in death-toll, an admittedly poor metric which doesn't add in the additional deaths from the denial of human rights.
A denial which includes the barricade of medication(see freedom flotilla), acts of violence against humanitarians (Dr. Swee Ang Chai, et al), persecution by reducing ability of creating a viable economic state (the GDP of Gaza is c $1000), prevention of access to education (barriers to university access on a daily basis), segregation physically and politically, Settler attacks on Palestinians, and the accompanying/ underlying ilegal occupation of land that is rightfully Palestine, largely accepted by the global community.
As such subjugation and imprisonment coupled with a comfortable external acceptance (or ignorance) of suffering drives and adds to the despair of a populace-denied basic human rights- and the inevitable weaponisation of this despair by extremists. The hope of some outcome is better than the existential nothingness of the current.
Of note within this thread, attempts to point to complicity of the Israeli populace due to National Service are also unacceptable. They are doing what has protected their people since the inception of the Israeli state, and cannot- as individuals- be held responsible for this, especially when their service has finished.I will just quickly restate that I believe, whole heartedly, that the rights of Israel and its people are legitimate, and that we as Palestinians cannot deny this any longer. Especially if we want long-term solutions. However, this is a view that is easily cultivated as a Diasporic Palestinian, removed from the despair.
Returning to this weekend:
It is clear that we are beyond the point of peace now. This is a devastating turn of events.
Retribution will occur and I am sure my people will pay for the actions that have occurred.
Hamas will continue until destroyed by Israel.
Alongside it will be the re-capture of Gaza and the deaths and further imprisonment of many ordinary Palestinians who had the misfortune of being born in Gaza, and trapped for their entire lives. It will drive extremism on both sides, to the detriment of all.
The additive rhetoric of the news cycle in the West- "our 9/11", "Pearl Harbor", will further the above isolation, and add to that cycle. And continues to bolster international support of Israel’s accepted illegal activities in spite of the apartheid that has occurred for decades. Thus we guarantee further driving denigration of a people who have now banded together in utter despair.The Civilian casualties are completely unacceptable.
This is true of both sides. An UNWRA site has already been hit. There will be more.
Attacking the music festival is bizarre and stomach-turning, a disgusting act.
This will be a long, bloody conflict with disgusting war crimes.
Hamas has already carried these out, undeniably, and that is beyond abhorrent. Historically, Israel is not clean of them.Finally- to any Israelis who might read this:
We were once the same.
My only hope is that one day we return to being the same.
I stand with you in sorrow, and shock, and disbelief. -
Thank you @Aldosterone !
For further context I've posted a pretty unbiased account of the history of this recent conflict from Dorian Lynsky and Ian Dunt in the pod Origin story
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The thing is what can Palestine do? Ask a genocidal state for them to be nice? These are actions of people with no option, no out. I’m so sick of “both sides are just as bad” bollocks.
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A source briefed on the talks told Reuters that the Qataris proposed the Israelis be exchanged for 36 Palestinian women and children detained in Israel.
More selective language from the bbc with detained being used rather than kidnapped.
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Just want to jump on this. Because Jews were the subject of a holocaust by Nazis doesn't mean the state of Israel cannot have fascist/genocidal tendencies. https://archive.ph/dFi0Z https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/7/26/israels-nation-state-law-parallels-the-nazi-nuremberg-laws
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I have worked in positions alongside vulnerable adults. I’ve seen things I’ve had to report, including one person I considered a mate. This goes even further when it’s somebody in power. Studies may provide an explanation but it’s never an excuse. It was an ignorant mistake, but crying anti-semitism is fucking typical when someone talks about Israel’s genocide.
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Ineffable, the pain and frustration and inextricability and hopelessness of this conflict. As evidenced in this thread, this issue has divided and embittered communities against themselves in countries and forums across the world. I hope at least this community won’t allow itself to be one of them.
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I’m so sick of “both sides are just as bad” bollocks.
Looking critically at the actions of both sides doesn't excuse either or make them equivalent, but no one should get a free pass to commit atrocities because atrocities have been committed upon them, although it may explain some actions it doesn't excuse everything.
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I think it excuses a lot. You hear people that have killed their spouse after years and years of abuse. We understand actions aren’t made in a vacuum. As a country we seem to have more empathy for them than we do with Palestinians.
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But not anything and everything automatically, spouses that kill still go on trial.
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I heard a BBC interview earlier with a Palestinian official. He said for any progress to start the law had to be applied equally.
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Well yeah, that makes sense.
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Thanks for a reasoned personal response. Very interesting. I hope you and your extended family are OK.
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Nice one, thanks.
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@Platini
It is actually slightly important here to note that there are technically multiple elements of Hamas.
A military wing- widely seen as a terrorist organisation, and a political party- which is not universally seen as such (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Terrorist_designation) including (apparently acc. wikipedia) the UN.
This is more semantics for the people above who are having an argument about different aspects of a group that has launched an attack against civilians. A move, that cannot be seen as anything other than abhorrent.