In the news

Fuck justifying shooting a bunch of innocent kids at a rave

It was psy trance.

And once again I never said it was…

The fact that Israelis have to do national service is an old saw in the ‘they’re all complicit and thus fair game’ argument.

How about the German tattooist?

“more than proud to wear this uniform”…

You can also object and do community service

Edit: And I may add your now justifying Israel’s actions… I was just following orders boss…

fair game’ argument.

It also feels a bit like the 'let god sort them out' argument. If you consider the Las Vegas country music festival shooting, would it be less of a crime if we later on found out that one of the 60 dead was a child abuser? Nope.

These are impressive mental gymnastics equating the struggles of an oppressed nation who are literally facing genocide with a mass murder under no pretext of war.

I’m not justifying anything - conscription is part of how the cycle of violence is perpetuated and the sooner it is abandoned the better.

Most feign mental illness or claim religious reasons to get out of it, I’m not aware of a community service option.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-67045784

Do you think the litter picker at the bottom of the article pocketed some?

"There is a member of the litter-picking group, a man in his 60s, who we want to make contact with, as we continue to speak with everyone in the vicinity, and we would ask him to get in touch with us.

"He is of slim build, around 5ft 6in tall and had short grey hair, with a birthmark on the right side of his mouth and a wide eyed expression and was overheard spouting some turbo drivel."

Err, what?

Not saying that atrocities didn’t happen on both sides, but South Korea was the invaded country and was almost wiped out within 2 months.

Then it became a Cold War conflict between a largely US UN force vs communist North Korea, China and Russia with over 3 million military and civilians killed on both sides.

DPRK vs South Korea has no sensible comparison to Israel / Palestine.

Imagine someone created a brand new country inside your country and enforced it with lots of guns, then spent the next decades taking more and more of your land, killing your friends, kicking your relatives out of their houses, controling where you can travel and when, all the while supported by the international community. Of course you'd be ideologically intolerant of them.

I think you're conflating different things.

I think ideological intolerance here refers to Israel having the right to exist.

I don't have anything to contribute to the Israel Palestine discussion but I heard this incredible story on BBC world service about this incredible person in the middle of the maelstrom. Worth a listen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct4qw6

Just had a YouTube video interrupted by an advert from State of Israel that Paul Verhoeven would have said was a bit much.

There’s a twisted symbiotic relationship between the bloodthirsty extremists on both sides of this conflict - they need each other to justify their existence and their actions, and their violence polarises the population and drives them deeper into each other’s arms. Most people are innocents, trying to get on with their lives - the discourse of complicity justifies further violence and plays into the hands of the extremists.

Fuck all the warmongers and their apologists.

Excellent post, thank you

Depressing to watch people from their armchairs taking moral highground in one of the most tragic conflicts in modern memory, one which feeds hate and feeds off hate from around the world.

The same could be said of Northern Ireland.

Late to this story (apologies if already noted) but the lufguss golfists need to be careful on the non ski winter O-O-O.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66992504

'Let us hope that if any good can emerge from this nightmare it shocks Israel back into sense with a government of national unity that drops the far-right, dumps the judicial overhaul, ditches the expansion of settlements in occupied territories and reins in the settlers. Then, later, to reflect on how they reached this dark point – and reform their democracy to weaken the hold of religious and political fanatics while dropping any delusion that peace can be rooted on repression.'

https://liveapp.inews.co.uk/2023/10/08/this-is-israels-9-11-and-the-impact-will-be-global/content.html

One can but hope

By targeting random civilians, Hamas has inevitably killed people who support a two state solution and oppose Netanyahu. If they don't want the backing of liberals in Israel and the West, what's their end game? Conquer Israel with backing from Iran? Good luck with that.

For those "two sides" people, in the UN statement

"These developments did not occur in a vacuum. They are preceded by the killing this year of hundreds of Palestinians … and preceded by decades of Israel’s unrelenting military raids on Palestinian villages, towns, cities and refugee camps … arrest, detention, imprisonment and abuse of thousands of Palestinian civilians, including children and women, a suffocating 16-year air, land and sea blockade of more than 2 million Palestinians in Gaza …”

Whilst I don’t disagree with anything in that letter, it should be pointed out that the writer has skin in the game. The UN website takes a different perspective.

Northern Ireland

While there are obviously differences, I think there are important comparisons. Improving the economy of ROI, reducing foreign funding, genuine peace talks and making concessions, etc. all offer lessons.

Feels like this topic is becoming a candidate for its own thread, in a similar fashion to the Trump, Russia/Ukraine, Brexit etc.