Pre 1950s rides of LFGSS: old bikes, vintage rats, classic lightweights

Stem could be builder made. Back when I worked in a bike shop there were some stems made of 531 (I was told) brazed by the frame builder and chromed by our local platers (Wenlock plating).

Yes very plausible, this looks very custom made bike, some parts are later addition, stem could be one of those - for an example headset is 1st gen Record, so late 60s, hubs BH Airlites, frame spacing is 114mm at rear meaning 4speed perhaps or single as it is now etc.

Stem is in great condition too, not sure how as some parts are not, like headset, perhaps it was properly covered?

KARMA - Anyone fancy a pair of 27 1 1/4 Dunlop Special lightweight rims? One I think will be fine with a bit of elbow grease, the other too rusty IMO. Pics tomorrow

Came of that lovely mixte/step through I posted a picture of a few days ago - as will replace with some modern alloy ones. Hubs were caked in grease and mud, perhaps for the best judging by before and after pics

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WOW, burried treasure, that would make my week ! It's great that these items are saved from a possible one way trip to the tip.

Apart from the damage to the frame which is bad enough, i did feel for you after having to push the bike into work ive been in the postion myself and its soul destroying.
Anyway on a more positive note how are you getting on with repairs.

I'm going to take it to Varhona-Winston thinks he may have some suitable older campagnolo dropouts that could work-not exactly the same as the original but hopefully stronger! He's away until November so will hopefully be then. Other than that I need to either fix the wheel, or find a new one. When the frame is stripped to go to Varhona I will look more closely at the rear mech-its a bit bent up but Campag Gran Sports are made of soft stuff, so I may be able to straighten it-i'm sure I've heard of others doing this.
The walk in to work after was not the best, but at least I didn't actually come off myself as the traffic around me was pretty heavy so could have been worse. I'm trying to tell myself that I'm fortunate to have other bikes to use in the meantime-staying as philosophical as I can about it.

Hi

Hope people are well. Does anyone use their vintage bikes with cup and cone bearings for all weather riding and commuting? Would be interested to hear how they hold up in the rain and grime and what sort of servicing or preventative methods people are taking for bearings etc to increase longevity if you have any pointers?

Thanks in advance

Bear in mind that all bikes had unsealed cup and cone bearings until about 1980, and millions of them went decades without maintenance. If you want to err on the side of caution, use plenty of thick grease and repack annually.

In Reading Bike Kitchen we see several 20+ yr old low-end bikes with these each week. They are lubricated with tar and road grime, and somehow carry on for years. Apollo(gy for a bike) are the worst, as I dont'e even think they cut threads in the BB shell, just slam the cups into virgin tube with an air gun.

Old Campag Record BBs are "rifled" to force dirt out as the cranks rotate, so probably good for a dirty day on the TdF, but I doubt they'd survive commuting.

Times and expectations change, I'd opt for sealed every time.

Not all..https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/classic_components/harden-bicycle-products/
Been commuting with a set of these for about 6 years 30miles a day in any weather And they have been amazing. Havent had to change the cartridges once. Incidentally the bearings are still easily available as a metric size.

Wow that’s impressive, have heard good things about the Harden hubs. They really were well ahead of their time with the cartridge bearings. Could these theoretically be changed to bearings with a seal on them too if someone wanted to? Appreciate this isn’t really in the spirit of vintage authenticity but just curious. https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Imperial-Ball-Bearings/KLNJ382RS-Imperial-Sealed-Ball-Bearing-R62RS-952mm-x-2223mm-x-714mm--5390-p

Amazing bit of kit considering they were made c.1940-50.

What sort of bottom bracket and headset are you using for your commute? Do you have a full vintage set up

Yes they could for added piece of mind.
I use steel stronglight cranks with cotter pins, ta ring and single ring adaptor.
Stronglight headset which originally came with the frame.
BB is Bayliss Wiley.
GB courier brakeset
I use clipless pedals, as modern shoes keep me warmer in the winter with over socks.
schwalbe tyres for obvious reasons and a modern Brooks saddle, i have got vintage saddles but they do not like to get wet.
The harden hubs are laced to weinmann 27.1.1/4 inch rims.
Oh and a modern chain and sprocket.

So not a complete vintage build but its very practical and it means i can ride an A.S. Gillott every day

Very fortunate for sure.
if you cant fix the Gran sport i have a spare you can have, the original jockey wheels have been replaced with modern plastic versions but other than that it works all right.

I've had cup and cone bearings in several bikes, including ones set up for winter-TA bottom brackets and axle and cottered Bayliss Wiley. Also 1950s's Airlite hubs, (all be it laced to modern rims) The bottom brackets have never been any problem, I just use modern grease-and lots of it. The hubs sometimes need adjusting at the cones, and a bit of de-gunking but no real problems other than that thus far, at least not to do with bearings!

Thanks, I'll get in touch if needs be-should know be November when I take the bike apart. (it's currently sat inside at work looking sorry for itself, and will go straight to Varhona from there)

Same here, cup and cone and lots of good quality grease (with drop or two of oil added) and no probs at all. Had rode such combos since 70s, I remember jumping into a lake with a bike and riding home without issues, although would not recommend this of course 😁

Tester is correct to point out that cup and cone bearings served all cyclists for millions of (mostly) trouble free miles for over a century.

I have a BW front hub which is reputed to have done over 200,000 miles - it still runs perfectly.

One small note of caution. On well used frames it is common for the slot in the seat tube which forms the seat pin clamp to become distorted. If a bike with this minor defect is ridden in the rain without mudguards water will get into the frame and cause major problems including rusty BB bearings.

It's quite common and irritating to read 'experts' suggestions that old style kit was defective, unlike the modern stuff which they imply never goes wrong. Naturally, if any machine is badly assembled by some incompetent person and then abused, it won't work very well. Old bikes, treated with reasonable care, would last at least the lifetime of the owner - that's what the trade doesn't like and it is possibly the origin of the stories about how bad they were.

Hello thank you people for sharing their accounts and experiences with reliable vintage steeds. Great to hear how will these bikes are coping with day in day usage. Hoping to get something built up to do the same!

Times and expectations change, I'd opt for sealed every time.

So would I. I'd also prefer my sealed bearings to be cup and cone.

'Sealed' is a poor way to distinguish cartridge bearings from cup and cone.

BTW, the seals in a great many of the cartridge bearings employed on bikes were designed as dust seals for electric motors or whatever, and lazily specced by a company without the resources to do proper adjustable bearings with proper weather sealing.

I know, right? If cup and cone bearings become contaminated, it's easy to fix before it causes damage. Cartridge bearings on bikes are mostly just an artefact of capitalism.

Another reason people assume old school bearings are crap is the tiny likelihood of hubs not being set too tight from the factory, or being properly adjusted in the shop, before suffering premature failure.

'Here you go mate, what you need is these hubs with bearings you have to replace when anything goes wrong with them.'

Properly adjusting a cup and cone setup is one of life's great pleasures. I love when you find them somewhere super cool, like inside a Dura-Ace shifter.

'Here you go mate, what you need is these hubs with bearings you have to replace when anything goes wrong with them.'

As opposed to cup and cone, where you have to replace the whole hub if the cup wears out 🙂

'Sealed' is a poor way to distinguish cartridge bearings from cup and cone.

Fair comment - but you get my drift.

Enduro seem to focus on the needs of cyclists in their choice of seal types.

Unfortunately I've seen so many wrecked XTR / Dura Ace, and Campagnolo cup'n'cone bearings (and by defintion hubs and BBs) due to lack of timely maintanance that I've lost faith - not in the system, but the real world events that effect them. If only Shimano made spare parts available ... But 'till then a quick'n'dirty cartridge is the better way forward 99% of the time IMHO.

Sure, but if you merely ensure proper adjustment in the first place, you can ignore them almost forever if they have half-decent sealing. If or when pitting occurs, it always happens to the cone first because the load is more concentrated on it. Pitted cups are a sign of extreme neglect. If you have caused cups to become pitted, you deserve it.

Also, some cups are actually replaceable.

Shimano's parts support is an abomination. And the failure of factories and shops to provide properly adjusted bearings is also an abomination. So much wasted kit. I believe maintenance is virtually unnecessary except if there's a great deal of wet riding, but proper adjustment is crucial. Pisses me off hard, because 'proper' is a pretty wide window. Bearings can happily survive quite a bit of preload, but nothing like the ridiculous amounts you often see from the factory. They hate no preload though, let alone a rattle.

It's a massive pain in the arse how many zillions of varieties of cones exist, but if you have access to enough spares, you can often make something NQR work, almost as often with compromised sealing.

some cups are actually replaceable

Most of them are theoretically replaceable, after all it's just a steel bearing race pressed into an aluminium shell like a cartridge bearing, but the last time I saw cups for sale was about 1980, when Campag was still a proper organisation rather than a lifestyle brand with some offshore manufacturing operations.

But yeah, per my original point, they last an awfully long time if you set them right in the first place and do the minimal maintenance.