The fall of the Tory party

Anyway, this is the watch the Tories eat themselves thread, not the how to fix all their fuck ups thread.

Income is income. Play around with https://listentotaxman.com/ and see what the numbers say. The only two boxes to meddle with are Salary (yearly) and Pension Contribution (make sure you change the selector to % if you want a percentage, otherwise its an absolute amount).

I've not much sympathy for someone only taking home 51% of their £140k income whilst also putting £17k away into a pension each year.

sorry just me ranting but we do pay > 12 % pension (see below) - im ok i wont starve just had a moan

https://www.rcn.org.uk/employment-and-pay/pensions/Contribution-changes-to-the-NHS-Pension-England-and-Wales-only

a more modern link - still > 12 %

https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pensions/additional-pensions-advice/nhs-pension-contribution-rates

You're very much not the bad guy.

Well, probably.

Excellent blog post from Dan Neidle regarding tax rates.

https://www.taxpolicy.org.uk/2023/09/24/70percent/

Jeez only loosing half your income. Sounds great.

I'm a higher rate tax payer earning well above the UK average and delighted to contribute half my income to public services. I wish I was taxed more and public services were better, I can survive with less Lego.

That's what a decent pension costs. A lot of the current pensioners, that aren't in poverty, have final salary pensions that don't exist today. There are going to be a lot more pensioners in the coming decades with tiny defined contribution pots that are going to have real difficulty making ends meet.

Agree with all of that - it's the effect of all the (quite reasonable) comments that "well if they're earning that much they can afford it" on any policy govt bring in...

It won't be fixed though, because there's no political capital in tackling that end of things - who would make the case for fixing that when there are people much worse off?

I guess it also depends on your outgoings doesn't. If it means less lego, then that's one thing.

If you were the sole breadwinner with a couple of kids in full time childcare and a small mortgage then it might be different.

Isn't that one of the problems with asset inflation? Even people earning a shit load don't feel that rich because it's so expensive to buy e.g. a big family home. So no one regards themselves as rich, which makes the "tax the people with more than me" effect stronger than it would be otherwise

difficulty making ends meet

Especially if they haven't bought a home. I know it's not all, but today a large number of pensioners own their home rather than paying eye-watering sums to rent.

Yes. Definitely.

Especially if you factor the upwards drag into higher rate tax bands. Which is why I have a gripe with CGT and people like Sunak paying an effective tax rate in the low twenties, and lack of courage and imagination on tech multinationals.

(I realise properly funding early years childcare would drastically change my e.g.)

Sure, but you do realise that your employer contributing 20.6% (on top of the 12.5% you're forced to contribute) is way way way way beyond what most people have.

Most people's employers are contributing just 3%, and that's only because it's the statutory minimum, and that minimum only came in in the last few years. Before that millions of people had no employer contributions towards pensions.

So, compare the 33.1% that is going into your pension each year with the 8% statutory minimum for millions of others.

(Don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't begrudge the NHS for contributing that much into your pension. As snotty says, you are very much not the bad guy.)

People like me should be paying more tax to pay for top notch childcare for people you describe.

It's pretty simple. Tax the rich.

Rich meaning people that don't work but live from their money working for them.

Sorry having a drunk Monday evening.
As long as people that make more than a million a day and pay less than 2% in taxes like my favourite example Susanne Klatten (I am in Germany) exist.
While minimum wages get taxed all the discussions about vat and stuff I don't know.

Until this morning, I actually thought there were some places even Braverman wouldn't go:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/26/appeal-to-lgbtq-tories-to-condemn-suella-braverman-over-gay-persecution-comments

Also, eat the rich.

Is Ed on here?

https://order-order.com/2023/09/26/watch-ed-davey-suggests-tories-are-cts/

Yet just a few years ago they were best of chums

Feeble climate saver and West Berkshire absentee politician Alok Sharma is another one not standing for re-election. Bye!

A conundrum for the centrist edgelords..

simply being gay, or a woman should not by itself be enough to gain protection under international refugee laws - Suella Braverman

go to hell you vile woman