Gravel / Gravé / Gnarmac / Groad / ATB

I think it’s likely your conception of speed is skewed.

23mm feel a hella lots faster but in reality it fits the opposite.

42mm feel hella slow cause there’s little to no road buzz at a lower pressure, but actually do the opposite.

Well that's kinda what I'm saying, I can't see 23 being faster, but we still talk about 'compromise' between speed and comfort when discussing wider tyres.

a friend that's been audaxing every weekend for years now swears by his 23c

Have they tried good tyres, or are they just a stubborn old git?

Absolutely the latter. I tease him over it, but I can't seriously act clever around someone who rides that much.

it makes me shudder!

Imagine how much it makes them shudder...

we still talk about 'compromise' between speed and comfort when discussing wider tyres.

There is a compromise. You're only considering rolling resistance. 42mm tyres are significantly less aero than 23mm and this will be a not insignificant drag at higher speeds.

Yeah, why isn't anyone TTing on a gravel bike with 42s? :)

42mm tyres are significantly less aero

Ok that's fair. I guess it's a different game if you're talking that level of optimisation. I average like 20kmh on long stuff, party pace and all that eh.

In each photo the rack gets bigger and the bike gets smaller

Sorry but no way a 40c tyre is faster than 23c in tarmac. Spent years commuting with big slicks but the days I was on the road bike was faster. Tried in group rides as a winter bike too, can hold with the fast boys but always was an extra effort

Is your winter bike as light as your summer bike? As aero?

(No one is arguing that 40c is faster than 23c, which is why no one races on 40c. Rather pointing out that for a recreational rider the difference in speed, whilst there, is substantially psychological)

Modern road cycling is a 28mm tire measuring at least 30mm on a wide rim probably ridden almost flat, no?
That's quite the difference to 23 mm on 13c with 9 bars.

25c 4 lyf.

(mainly because I refuse to consider disc for my road bikes and I can't go any bigger)

Even with the fixed gear the commute was considerably faster than the fat slicks. And I was doing a fair distance, every day. Only difference being 1 or 2 kg more of bike.
Still I was happy with the big tyres, more wet grip, better against potholes, tubeless worked well enough and gravel capabilities. But faster they were not

Yes. Jumbo rode TDF stages with 30c, measuring 32mm, in the rear. 28 front for aero, 30 in the back for comfort. That seems to be the sweet spot.

I’ve been riding 30c/32mm past month front and rear. Can only see the benefits in comfort and freshness at the end of rides; can’t perceive any reduction in speed.

stubborn old git?

Tell me you haven’t seen Audaxers without telling me.

23mm is a lots slower, I’d wager a good 40mm actually be better than the horrifically small 23mm that a lots of tyres manufacturers nowadays no longer make.

Unless the tarmac is super smooth right? Like an indoor track, I'm under the impression thinner tyres are still faster on super smooth surfaces?

Indoor track are not in the same ballpark especially with minimal wind resistance, humidity, etc.

Were the fat tyres reasonably nice like gravelkings or sth? Or is this comparing gp500 on a road bike with schwalbe marathon on a hybrid?

IMO 'real world' comparisons for me would also include me coasting, lifting my bum, and holding my breath on every other pothole on 23, vs gently shifting weight and still pedalling on 42.

Ah. Best of both worlds are Schwalbe Marathon in 25!
As the German I am I once bought them for my fixed gear.
It was devastating. From pinching 5 (?) tubes because they are basically more tire than space for air.
Riding them was the worst ever.
I think someone described them as akin to having a bag of walnuts on your rims. Which is pretty accurate.
Sold them one week later.
If you really hate someone, give them a bike with Schwalbe Marathon unplattbar in 25.

a bag of walnuts on your rims

What's the German for this?

Credit where credit is due, they appreciate all sorts of bikes, just prefer to ride something they're used to (which is absolutely the correct thing to do).

My motivation for building my (rando-esque) bikes or doing audaxes is very Freudian. The paternal issues go away when a tired MAMIL in a PBP vest leans over to examine my bike from a polite distance and compliments me on the 'job well done eh' while I'm sitting down on the gas station curb eating my ice cream pretending my legs are still fresh after 8h of riding.

„wie ein Sack Nüsse“