Coffee Appreciation

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  • If they’re patient, second hand niche and Gaggia classic off eBay. Easy to do for £700 if you look at completed listings, and depending on what comes with either, there should be cash left over for scales etc. More classics than Niches on eBay tho.

  • Recommend something that you'd like and then take it off their hands in a couple of months time when they decide it's not worth the faff?

    On a more serious note, might one of the fancy bean to cup options be worth a look? Obviously not as good as a standalone but might be more likely to be used consistently

  • Sage Bambino Plus and a 1zpresso JMAX -or- Baratza ESP Encore.

    Bambino means heat-management isn't really an issue (no temp-surf nonsense) and then a simple grinder that can go fine enough to dial in properly.

  • @nef @branwen @Ptown You all read my mind

    I suggested one of the Sage all in one machines, but he doesn't want a "newbie machine", and he's convinced the grinder is trash. It's actually meant to be a gift for his girlfriend who makes V60, so I suggested to maybe just get a good flexible grinder like the niche for now so she can do pour over, but he says he doesn't like pour over 🤦‍♂️.

    He saw a James Hoffman video so now doesn't wasn't the Bambino and wants me to install a PID to a Silvia 🤦‍♂️.

    Incidentally, is the Niche pretty much the best option for pour over & espresso? (Not switching daily just to cover both bases).

  • Something something "a little knowledge" 😬

    Edit: also doesn't Hoffman have a vid on his daily home set -up, which isn't espresso? Might be able to salvage the situation with that?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QjIvN8mlK9Y

  • Incidentally, is the Niche pretty much the best option for pour over & espresso? (Not switching daily just to cover both bases).

    I’m not aware of many others that manage it as easily (but I’m not hugely familiar with the £500~ grinder market).

    I swear JH is a blessing and a curse (although definitely more blessing than curse) because of how many people decide they’ve become experts overnight after binging through his videos, lol.

  • I’m not convinced that single dosing is necessary for most.
    When I first got the Silenzio that is what I was doing, but since I wasn’t constantly experimenting with different beans I eventually just dumped the whole bag in, haven’t looked back.
    I make 2-3 espressos a day with dark roasted beans that come in 340gm bags.

  • Just to clarify, he's getting an espresso machine for his girlfriend who drinks pour over?

  • Wouldn't single-dosing be a requirement if flipping back and forth between espresso & filter? Requirement is a strong word of course, but retention when flipping between filter and espresso would be a pain IMO

  • Totally, I missed that they’d be doing both.

  • Sage bambino and smart grind pro? Comes in at budget, would do everything they want it to do (grinder flips between pour over/espresso at touch of a button) and the grinder is pretty well reviewed (totally adequate for the vast majority of people).

    By definition in that budget it’s going to be mostly ‘newbie’ machines.

  • Still struggling with the steam wand. Does this look “normal” or do I need to fiddle with something. Even after a minute of (admittedly poor technique) steaming milk, I achieve absolutely no texture. Never had any problem on my Cubika with what I thought was a much poorer steam wand.


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  • I bought a Sage Dose Control to use for V60, and having drunk a bit more espresso recently when out and about, I would like to venture down the rabbit hole. I believe the Sage can do a basic espresso grind, and wonder if anyone has moved on from being a newbe, and has eg a robot, flair classic or similar for sale so I can make a modest start.

  • She drinks both but can only make pour over

    @kimchi I agree, but he's decided sage is for noobs now (despite him being a noob). I've tried explaining it isn't.

  • What's the history of the machine? Need to rule out scale before anything else.

    The classic steam thermostat limits it quite a lot, such that you need to start steaming very soon after flicking the steam switch. Also, don't open the valve fully, try just a quarter turn. I guess you've tried that though?

  • Just bought the machine off here, so getting to grips with it. The steam straight after hitting the switch is the opposite to my old machine, so that takes some getting used to.
    I’ll try the quarter turn too, I’d briefly tried that to not much avail.
    I guess a strip down and descale is on the cards.
    It is pulling nice shots tho.

  • Ah that makes sense.

    I've been in a similar position a few times. I state my opinion, give reasons for that opinion, and leave it at that. (More often than not, my opinion is "Home espresso is more faff than it's worth, don't bother")

    I don't mind people asking a few questions but this feels more like the sort of guy who'll bring his bike in for a service and continuously ask the mechanic why he isn't doing things the way he thinks they should be done.

  • No need to strip it down yet, just try a longer regular descale for now and see what happens.

    What it may also be is the steam thermostat, which isn't too difficult or expensive to replace. It's also an opportunity to increase the steam temp set point by using a 155C stat instead of the stock 145C.

    I found with the Gaggiuino that the steam set point is much higher and it generates much much higher steam pressure, so switching to a higher temp stat is worth try the upgrade regardless.

    @mmccarthy Exactly! Would like be more helpful, but it's something you only figure out yourself, that's the fun of it.

  • I can probably spare a couple hundred grams of decent beans in port Isaac…

    Milk jug and tamper that’s actually a distribution tool arrived today.. will be an improvement so looking forward to better coffee in the morning!

  • Have got to the stage where the espresso from the pavoni is “acceptable” although I think I need to go one setting finer on the grind as the crema is still not great, I suspect that’s a pressure issue.

    The amount of general leakiness has massively reduced, on day one it was emptying the tank during warm up, now it’s less than a fifth, and after a sacrificial shot of the 100 year old espresso in the pot that lives here and it’s not leaking into the portafilter during lever raising any more (at least as far as I can tell!), I guess a bit of use has revived the seals a bit but will replace them when I get it home…

  • As has been said these machines are very amenable to servicing and parts availability is strong (in the UK, fuck knows out here).

  • On mine, If I switch the steam button on and wait till the light turns on I'll get a load of steam initially - but it will run out of oomph before optimum texture/temp. This is because as soon as the light turns on, the boiler turns off - as the thermostat tells it it's at the required temp. It doesn't kick back in quick enough to maintain steam pressure. If you get good steam initially, but it's then running out - the thermostat is probably "ok" (* see note). The gurgling suggests there is pressure building in there somewhere - so perhaps just a good descale is needed. If you turn the brew switch on and open the steam valve - do you get a good jet of water out of the wand? If so - it can't be too blocked.

    The answer to good steaming on the classic is to try and surf just below the thermostat boiler temp by letting it heat up to a decent steam pressure (I leave the valve slightly open dribbling steam into a beaker) and then when you think you've got some steam pressure, but before the light turns on - get steaming...as long as you're steaming while the light is off, the boiler will still be trying to heat up - creating more steam. When you get this right, the steam pressure can be pretty good - but as others have said - it's noticeably better after a descale.

    *I recently tripped my classic by leaving it on. The brew thermostat was already on the blink (heating up ever hotter and hotter)- and eventually it burnt through the thermal fuse on top. As part of the repair I replaced both thermostats and noticed that everything was better afterwards. It now takes longer for the machine to heat up - which suggests the old brew one was kicking in at too low a temp - when it did work.

    So - old thermostats may be dodgy before they obviously die. Cheap and easy to replace though.

  • On the topic of which grinder for a V60. I make nicer tasting V60's with my timemore c2 hand grinder (£50~) than I do my niche zero (£500~).

  • Don’t suppose the mc2 is still available?

  • Not sure what the issue is, but have had a Gaggia Classic way back when and it does not behave like that. Seems to me like the boiler is not coming up sufficiently to pressure on the steam setting.

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Coffee Appreciation

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