Low trail bikes and crashes

Tl;Dr - don't ride low trail bikes aggressively?

So I've been riding for 40 years. XC, full on downhill, trials, stupid risky fixed, gravel, even a bit of BMX / street.

I've left pubs at 3am and rode 15 miles home in snow on a brakeless fixed hundreds of times.

I've toned it down these days but I still like ripping off curbs, having a little fun in traffic and taking the most fun line possible at speed.

Fast forward to present day and I build up a low trail 650b bike and I've nearly killed myself on it twice in the past year.

First time I washed out on a normal asphalt high speed redirection off a curb. Lost a bunch in pride and skin.

Second time I missed a spot of loose gravel on a driveway transfer and ..... Washed out in a turn. Sure gravel and loose but it put me in the hospital. It was the worst most surprising crash I've ever had on any surface ever. I'm now recovering with destroyed helmet, 4 broken ribs and a complex clavicle fracture.

I've crashed more often and worse on this bike than any other bike I've ever owned and all in the past year.

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Has me thinking about a lot of things, but also the frameset and whether it can safely be pushed.

Curious if anyone else has similar experiences or heard similar things.

My low trail bike is probably the only bike I haven’t crashed. Yet.

Sorry to hear about your accident(s). Hope you heal up soon.

Ow, fuck that!

Talk about nastiest and most surprising crashes, the only time I've ever broken anything was when a 'Protective Services Officer' tackled me off my bike (landing on top of me) for going through a level crossing with the boom gates down.

Bit of a hard road to come for the next few months, you're gonna need to hang in there.

I think you need to show us the bike.

They're designed to be used with a front load aren't they? If you were riding unloaded I suspect you'd have considerably less grip on the front wheel which would lead to the crashes described.

I remember from your crust thread that you found the handling weird, how do you feel about it today?

It’s mainly weird if you’re riding sporty. Maybe I’m just used to it now.

Still prefer non-low trail I think. I’m riding it mainly without front load though.

Shit a brick mate, mend quickly x

This is an interesting read https://analogcycles.com/pages/debunking-low-trail
I have a low trail too and they can get out of shape in an instant, but at other times they play really nicely. Go figure.

I have a low trail too and they can get out of shape in an instant, but at other times they play really nicely

This is how I feel about it. Factor in a late night and a dose of enthusiasm and it can go sideways fast

I read the analogue cycle thing prior to all of this. I'm almost at the point where I may swap the fork for an ENVE crabon space station moon blaster and change the entire bike The problem is that it's a 1 in steerer.

You know I just called Soma to talk about this and fully expecting them to blow me off they kept me on the phone for almost 45 minutes talking about each scenario in which I've crashed. They're going to talk to the frame designer and get back to me with a fork recommendation or replacement frame or who know what else.

Either way they were completely engaged in the conversation.

I've certainly noticed that low trail on gravel and loose surfaces can get dicey quickly. It feels like if you lose front wheel traction on a corner you're going to go down quickly.
What Soma do you have? My grand rando (v3) definitely feels more twitchy than the VO polyvalent it replaced. I like it on paved surfaces though, and always have a bit of load on the front.

A good friend and all around experienced bikey guy had a Soma Grand Randonneur. The green disc one. He generally disliked the handling.

I'm in the normal-to-high trail camp. I want a very neutral handling bike.

^That's the one and not always loaded up.

Soma just said to me "you're definitely on the wrong frame and we can't find a 1 inch fork that we'd recommend. We'll sell you a different frameset of your choosing at a very very deep discount. Tell us what you want and we'll let you know the cost"

So maybe a soma wolverine will be the new build.

We'll see if the cost is almost free. They have the previous model on sale already. Might be quite cheap.

Soma coming in clutch here.

I've never checked how low trail the Elephant NFE is, but I've been riding that a lot recently and haven't noticed much difference to other, similarly tyred bikes. That said, I'm a terribly cautious descender at the best of times despite regularly "underbiking" rides. Sometimes I wonder if I actually know how to ride a bike.

Geez, that's a pretty good look. Almost as if they aren't in it for the money, imagine that.

... Hang on, it's the bike industry. Nobody much can be in it for the money...

Might not have anything to do with the bike.

You're older, maybe your reflexes are slower so you're not 'saving' stuff you previously were.

Maybe you've just forgotten previous crashes? I know I see scars and I'm like, "where the fuck was that one from?"

Basically, anecdotes != data

That's good service. It's not going to be almost free though unless they're going to take a loss giving it to you but it may be 60% off which is probably about cost price

Kudos to Soma for not just shutting the door.

My very unscientific thoughts on low trail are;
If you steer your bike then they ride just fine. You tend to steer more when you are loaded so they feel even more stable.
But if you lean to steer, the trail reduces further, throw in a little bit of steering correction and the trail goes into neutral or even negative, the wheel try’s to turn in on itself or succeeds if you’re unlucky and down you go.
That could all be smoke, but it makes sense to me.

That's great service and would make me buy a soma.

I would say get a fog cutter? Unless you want the fat tyres and racks for touring etc.

this thread needs scoble

Fog cutter vs wolverine vs jawbone.

I'm leaning wolverine.

Re: middle age and riding like a jerk. Thought of that, but this is just fast direction changes off curbs and basic fundamental bike skills which I could teach a class on. I say with as much humility as possible, put me on my SC 5010 and I can hit 6 foot drops without hesitation, blast root and rock gardens, throw whips and ride out manuals. This rando bike has gotten out from under me in ways that I can't reel back in several times, the most recent putting me down so fast and hard I had to call an ambulance. It's really surprising.

Now a younger me might not have gotten so injured upon impact....

Yeah this is how I feel about it, nice and stable when you’re upright but things get sketchy when you lean the bike. Mine seems prone to both oversteer & understeer depending on angle.

Loaded or not, I’ve gotta pay a lot of attention when riding it fast or railing turns

Clavicle reduced and fixed.

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