British Cycling being embarassing, obsequious idiots ...

You appear to have an extremely "online" approach to this and it's worth considering what happens outside this space. Women aren't going to stop talking just because you've bullied them out of one thread, they'll just take the conversation offline and your reaction here will be one of the things that they show to their friends who have questions about exactly what's going on with this whole issue. When the next petition or public consultation comes up they will quietly add their name or write an email; when the next election comes up, they will vote. And the people who they write to or elect will look at their submissions among various pieces of evidence, including the undoubted reports of violent transphobia and the desire of trans women to compete in sports, and they will create new policies.

Channel 4 is showing a program this evening on this very topic. Many people will watch with interest, many will have questions, many will be unclear as to their own thoughts of what the best resolution is. What do you think will happen if they are shown this thread?

Yeah my posting is the problem

Let be very clear; your view is not a problem, the way you post in a very belligerent manner is.

You're wrong. I'm informed by what happens in real life such as at thundercrit.

Thundercrit was covered by the daily heil as a "very modern bike race." They shared the names and instagram profiles of the events participants and organisers. This prompted floods of transphobes to start commenting all over the posts of people who participated in the event, calling them "handmaids" and other vile garbage in direct messages. The aim was to intimidate the organisers and participants so that they wouldn't run the event again. You are labouring under the apprehension that trans people aren't already under attack by the likes of people in this thread, because they are, and the denial to them of places to participate in sport is part of the agenda to denigrate and dehumanise them so that they are further marginalised as 'weirdos' and 'deviants.'

It is likely that at the next iteration they'll have to pay for private security to keep participants and spectators safe from the bigoted thugs who want to make other people live in fear, given that they know they're now on a list of targeted people. If you ever thought just backing down and hoping you can appease the transphobes in to leaving trans people alone will work, you are a fool.

I'd rather people yell at me and send me abuse than the handful of very brave mates I do have who stick their necks out.

Look I know this looks like a load of centrist white dads riding in, but Calum on wheels you’re really not being great here.
A person is telling you, as a woman, their viewpoint. You as a man, I mean I think you’re a man
Edit: this is not meant as a glinner type dig, I read this back and it’s not the best expression
are shouting back and telling them they’re wrong about being a woman.

The problem, in this thread, is your voice is drowning out others and is scattergunning opinions and articles while shouting at anyone who disagrees and then calling them a nazi. Which, while a solid and proven internet argument technique, doesn’t really engage with the problem of listening and trying to get a solution to a bigger problem.

The solution is to stop transphobia, which kills people, instead of indulging it as a harmless difference of opinion.

Absolutely.
The solution is to stop late stage capitalism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, and all other intersections.

Or more simply, we could over throw all cis het white men from positions of power, authority, and opinion.

Which if we did, would make this place a lot quieter right?

The solution is to stop transphobia.

I 100% agree, I believe you can make your point across to everyone and we be able to have a great discussion on the toxic issues of transphobia.

Sometime the best way to do that is to hear what other said, even if their view does not align with our.

He just wants to make sure people know he is an ally. One of ten good eggs. Every one else is a Nazi. That's all.

If you're getting upset at being pointed to the fact that nazis are using transphobia to recruit people and that far right groups are uniformly organising in support of the "gender critical" movement then that is your problem and not mine.

You’re not going to stop transphobia with that attitude.

The solution surely is to stop transphobia by the agreement of the majority. I don't personally know any trans people and therefore have no axe to grind. I don't like the thought of anyone being bullied for who they are, whatever their differences are from the perceived mainstream. Kindly don't call me a fascist as this would be factually incorrect.

What does concern me is that you come across like a religious zealot (any flavour you prefer), utterly convinced that you are the only one to have achieved enlightenment and seeing it as a duty to scream at anyone with a different view.

Will you please stop acting like the bullies you clearly despise as this is no way to get your message across, let alone agreed with.

If you're still thinking "hmmmm you know maybe the daily mail and the atomwaffen division have a point here about womens cycljng events" then I am doubtful whether my posts in this forum will sway you either way.

...and how do you think that you saying that anyone who thinks that perhaps sports should be organised by sex until we're certain that we know enough about hormones and performance levels is a literal fascist is playing into that narrative?

You never see the fash on the other side of the lines do you. Why do you think it is that nazis etc gravitate towards "gender criticals" as prospective allies and recruits?

It's even drowning out his own voice. Did so on another platform for sure (cycling tips slack channel), and not just in relation to trans people in sports as a topic.

To the point where most people that hold sympathetic views dismissed him. So they most likely miss that he has actually really good points to offer amongst that constant stream of accusations, i.e. that targeted abuse is happening and not everyone is just discussing. Which I might not have consider before, as that's not my lived experience.

But why would those people properly engage with someone that automatically accuses them of being Nazi or whatnot?

Instead it's much more fun to shit post and rile him up a bit so that he goes into fill on meltdown mode.

The problem with his Venn diagram of opinions is that if you're slightly out of his exact circle you're an enemy.

For a brief moment this morning it felt like this discussion could have been valuable, I appreciated the different perspectives. I have loads to learn, and being able to eavesdrop on conversations of people who have firsthand experiences is the nicest part of a public forum. Just wanted to say thanks for that.

Actually, the solution is to the problem: how to run bike races.

This.
Any points are lost and it’s becoming easier to poke a stick in there.

Upset is not the word here ... More like amused ...

I don't have anything to add to the actual discussion. I don't race (unless you count that one xc marathon I did), BC is not my governing body, even i did competitive stuff I would be so uncompetitive that I'd literally not care about trans women or anyone else having an advantage of sorts. Hell. Bring your E bike. Whatever ...

I just remembered you from cycling tips slack and loved watching you implode there. It's very amusing.

You can kid that respectability politics is a valid excuse to look the other way on marginalised people getting dog piled on by the right wing. That's an easy way out which avoids you having to actually do anything inconvenient and difficult or against the grain in any way, so you go ahead with it.

Err, no, the only saving grace of the Mail is that it's reasonably absorbent and the print doesn't come off on your arse. I have no idea who the atomwaffen are, if indeed they exist, I hope they don't.

I gave you no reason to misrepresent me or draw conclusions about my views, which are the polar opposite of what you suggest. Once again, please stop doing so to anyone who you might suspect doesn't entirely share your ideals, that would actually be fascistic.

Funny and sad at the same time.

Plus in discussions like this it's my loss as well.

I have definitely re-aligned my opinions and/or behaviour over the years, and sometimes it's good to be called out and get an opportunity to make right.

For example I used to, in my upbringing, habitually call stuff "gay" as a synonym for shit. But then again I grew up in a backwater German conservative town and people there just do that and that's what gets modelled. Until, by a classmate in Berlin, I was called out and educated. Firmly. But not without a path to better my behaviour.

I am highly doubtful that if Calum had called me a Nazi straight away I would have taken that on board. But then again I also doubt that he's actually interested in engaging with people for that purpose.

It’s not that though is it?
You are now at the point of easily being mocked. And that is dangerous. It means you’re now harmful and not an ally.

Quite like how you don’t know me or others in here and you’ve got the big old brush out.

All those Obergefreiter Damo and his fixed wheel Surly moments!