Audiophiles hifi appreciation thread old and new

I seem to be the only one commenting on Roon in this thread. I've had lifetime membership for 4/5 years. I complain about it quite a bit on the Roon forum but for a few different reasons.

They occasionally break something and then try to blame it on your home network for a few months before finally realising it's their problem and fixing it without apology or acknowledgement.

They introduce new features (like ARC) that are hobbled for many users by CGNAT when they knew this would be the case from initial design stage.

Search feature is terrible and now it's centralised so that the software will not work without an internet connection.

They seem to be moving focus away from local file based libraries to online, at least their future seems to lie there. For example local search results are not prioritised.

It's also expensive which is why you hear a lot of complaints from users.

Positives are end point handling is superb, multi room, convolution processing, quality preservation, raspberry pi integration, NUC ROCK capabilities. All of this beats Plex/Plexamp into a cocked hat. Metadata, tagging, look and feel are all superb. Mac, Windows, iPhone, iPad, Android apps work very well.

Raspberry Pi availability is a complete bitch. Surely they have to get it back up and running again the demand is huge. As far as I know you could manage with a Pi Zero or Pi 3, personally I'm running 2 displays and 2 endpoints and they are great, stable and really good quality.

Plex is great too though, endpoint handling is supposed to be improving might help your cause but I would probably suggest like others have that you suck it up and buy a second hand Pi at a premium.

A lot of Roon users have Plex too, it covers bases that Roon doesn't but it has it's own issues. Plexamp is brilliant though, kind of everything Roon is not but Roon is leagues ahead on loads of fronts too. I use Plexamp away from home, Roon at home. I miss playlist integration but ARC won't work for me yet and it's not fun like Plexamp anyway.

No idea if these would suit your requirements, but my home hifi dealer recommended these two last time I asked about streaming:

https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/escape-m1-air/

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/accessories/wxad-10/index.html

Honestly at least until the cca dies downloading BubbleUPnP and using the chromecast as a DLNA renderer would solve this problem wouldn't it- apart from having one more app on your phone.

Cheap too!

Does Lumin do anything that suits? i hear their own app is not shit unlike other proprietary software.
TBH i get confused as to what straps from what and how it’s controlled after spending ages trying to get a CCA to talk with My Naim UnitiQute and amazon music so just wended up with Tidal which i’m more than happy with, I don’t have music archive so soon etc is lost on me.
Well I do have an archive but it’s on large vinyl disks.

I use Roon, too.

Objectively, it's too expensive for what it is, and as @Airhead says, the search is lamentable. But i keep paying for it; must be in my 4th or 5th year.

Why? Because the basic playback functionality is very good, it's simple to use, Tidal integration is good, and it just works.

Every now and then I consider binning it off and going back to the latest version of JRMC, which is a much better value proposition, but i'm too lazy to bother. So Roon stays.

@Velocio I use a windows laptop (dedicated to the purpose, it never moves from my records / hifi shelves) running Roon into a USB DAC. The laptop is connected to my NAS and Internet via Ethernet. It's a pretty effective, if a little inelegant solution.

A whole day of research done.

Likely just going to go with something like a NUC couple to something like an RME Adi 2 https://rme-audio.de/adi-2-pro-fs-be.html

The computer will need WiFi, will run a Linux, and I'll run Plexamp on it.

The PC will basically be fetching FLACs via Plex, but just handing the decoded output straight to the RME device, which can handle every file without upsampling or downsampling, and can then output balanced analog audio for the amp.

I couldn't find what I wanted - a decent Linux streamer service with good audio hardware - so the RME is doing all the heavy lifting and doubles as a hell of a headphone amp.

I don't know enough about what you're after, but does this device work?
https://www.arylic.com/products/s50pro-wireless-preamplifier

Or wiim?
https://wiimhome.com/WiiMPro/Overview

Otherwise, my company has a storage room full of Nuc things and a some Pi 4's.... I can ask about specs and see if there's anything useful there? They were bought to drive some screens for something but we changed direction so they are gathering dust.

Tailgating with some pi4 interest if this comes off!

Wiim pro looks handy for tidal connect. I’m reluctant to pay in the £500 to replace a CCA with marginal gains (I know.. hi-fi), but that feels feasible.

I like sonos even though they are cunts. You're basically paying inflated hardware prices for excellent software, like Apple.
I like not having to troubleshoot home network streaming issues when I come home from work.

I don't know enough about what you're after, but does this device work?
https://www.arylic.com/products/s50pro-w­ireless-preamplifier

Or wiim?
https://wiimhome.com/WiiMPro/Overview

Those are both excellent and closest to what I am seeking than anything else mentioned.

What I'm after...

• I have a great local collection of music, some 2.3TB = 130K FLAC files all very nicely organised and always kept up to date, a mix of 16bit/44.1kHz and 24bit/96 Khz, a few silly files (32bit! no-one needs that!)
  
• I have a great network and strong WiFi everywhere.
  
• I have a Chromecast Audio — this is the weakest link as it forces the 48Khz and isn't gapless, and uses a crap DAC onboard, and requires casting from Plexamp to Cast which also has the server occasionally downsample before the upsample! (why?!), and it can't do gapless, and when hot it sometimes isn't visible to be casted to.
  
• I have a great amp.
  
• I have phenomenal speakers.
  
  

The goal then is to obliterate the weakest link, being the Chromecast Audio.

Requirements:

• WiFi to the network.
  
• The FLACs should arrive at the amp in perfect quality, no upsampling or downsampling (rules out Toslink and ideally want to get to the DAC directly from the playback client with few to no interfaces inbetween, software or hardware).
  
• The UI should be excellent, likely an app but still excellent. I'm fine with this being my phone.
  
• This is all local, so a nice to have is that it isn't dependant on any internet service, local playback should be fine.
  
  

Mostly the issue is that playback from a NAS file share is accompanied by crappy UI. Or it requires indexing of everything on the NAS which duplicates the fact that Plex has already done that.

Then the various vendors trying to crack this space focus on things I don't care about (multi-room), or are trying to make subscription services and forcing an internet connection, but worse is that their apps just aren't great — it's hard to love the apps, and the app is the tactile part of listening to music so I want to love the app.

I run Plex, I love Plexamp — so for me this has become a higher priority the more I see how bad the other things are.

Plex and Plexamp can run on a variety of things like Windows, Mac, Linux, and Raspberry Pi... and as a remote control Plexamp on my phone would just be asking the other device to directly play it. But then how to get from the software to the amp with fewest interfaces screwing with things?

Going wholly Plex only requires a small cheap computer as literally no streamer supports Plex natively, it's very lightweight software and would be the only thing running on the PC.

Downsides of this: I lose Cast altogether, and with that Spotify Connect which is occasionally useful when people are over and want to play their playlist, etc.

But... this is where I think adding in the RME ADI-2 Pro FS is good... because the PC (Plex) could connect via the USB and the USB becomes the sound card for the PC and it does 100% of the work. The DACs are incredible (I mean, they — there are two of them — are recording studio DACs and each supports 32-bit and 768Khz which is all kinds of daft, they're very capable).

I can still add the Chromecast into the Toslink input to retain Cast and Spotify in this setup, and could go further and add a turntable to the analog inputs so that I can also convert vinyl to FLAC in this same setup.

So that's what I'm trying to achieve — remove the weakest link for the local music collection — and why I've largely settled on buying a studio AD/DA converter and then putting a small PC next to it.

Otherwise, my company has a storage room full of Nuc things and a some Pi 4's.... I can ask about specs and see if there's anything useful there? They were bought to drive some screens for something but we changed direction so they are gathering dust.

You have a hoard of Pi 4's! Smuggle those out and sell them!

But if you have anything going spare, do say.

Why do you need the AD conversion? There's a DAC only version of that RME interface, significantly cheaper.
Edit, read the post. Recording vinyl, 👍

I've largely settled on buying a studio AD/DA converter and then putting a small PC next to it.

This is similar to the solution I arrived at (I use a hifi DAC but otherwise similar logic), although yours is more elegant.

To me, it makes sense to separate the IT component from the audio components, otherwise you are building obsolesce into your audio kit which is undesirable IMO.

Ok, a DAC is basically IT kit but without an OS etc to worry about, they last. My Wyred4Sound USB DAC must be at least 15 years old and it's still 100% fit for purpose.

Otoh, I've been through a few music system laptops and one dedicated audio PC over the time I've had this set up.

I'll check in the office tomorrow, although I'm in Australia so postage might outweigh savings.

Also a Roon user but I think I’m giving up on it when my subscription ends this year.

2.0 made the whole product worse, for the gain of Arc, which is one of the worst apps i’ve ever had to use (and trust me, I’ve used alot of bad internal only tech company apps).

I’ve tried to give constructive feedback on Arc numerous times, because its a product i want. But I always get berated or given some total fob off response.

I’m going back to Plex, especially now theres proper headless Pi support. PlexAmp blows Roon Arc out the water.

If I wanted a mobile solution and didn't have lifetime for Roon I'd probably be questioning sticking with it too.

What I do like about it is the built in convolution stuff which I use and rate the results.

Another thing I like about Roon and pi's is the ability to ethernet a pi with a AES/EBU hat and feed a studio DAC or in my case digital mixer or digital monitors.

If I wanted a mobile solution and didn't have lifetime for Roon I'd probably be questioning sticking with it too.

What I do like about it is the built in convolution stuff which I use and rate the results.

Another thing I like about Roon and pi's is the ability to ethernet a pi with a AES/EBU hat and feed a studio DAC or in my case digital mixer or digital monitors.

I've not had good results with 96/24 over wifi so I use ethernet for my high resolution playback endpoints. That is 96/24 multiroom though, single endpoint might be more stable.

I've only skimmed the above couple of pages, but if it's vaguely of interest, I have a quite but not overly silly hifi, listen to a lot of Fabric mixes, and am a years-long convert of Picoreplayer and LMS. Three pi LMS players around the house all of which stream music from one which is the server, the other two are players only. They occasionally all get synced together, but often don't. The pis have DAC upgrades in them, all sounds very nice, and are fun to mess around with as well as to use. I'm listening to one now in fact, though it's a Renaissance mix, not Fabric... and the playback is virtually but not quite absolutely gapless.

As far as I understand it the audiophile approach is a Mac mini (or intel mini thing) running into a NOS tubey R2R dac..
Currently listening to Miles streaming Qobuz at 24/96 through a CCA.. Sometimes use Plex for video but all my flacs are backed up on DVD and never listened too. Vinyl sold, CDs charity shopped. Some residual physical media lurking in the garage. Get rid of stuff, life gets simpler!

If feel like I've missed it, but what is wrong with raspberry Pi > usb > fancy dac > analog > amp > speakers?

I get not liking paying a mark up to an ebay reseller, but £40 extra or what ever it is seems minor to the rest of the build.

It also give plenty of scope for geeking out over dacs.

Nothing wrong with that, largely what I've settled for.

No availability of Raspberry Pi's though. So have asked about a NUC from someone before I look at the scalpers selling Pi's for £150.

As far as I understand it the audiophile approach is a Mac mini (or intel mini thing) running into a NOS tubey R2R dac.

No need to involve Apple in this. A Pi, NUC or other mini PC is good enough.

DACs though. DAC chips have been evolving exponentially, and with a DAC there is actually one true signal that should emerge on the other side. Literally any DAC that utilises a high resolution chip made in the last six years is now so close to perfect that it's indistinguishable from others.

The general architecture we're all describing is the same, a cheap PC running into an external DACa, amp, and speakers... None of us have described adding a Streamer which is what I originally evaluated.

My big spend is the DAC. Researched a lot before finding one with a very recent chip.

Now I've found it that's probably it, so close to perfect that my hearing will fail from old age long before I need to consider replacing it, so like the rest of my silly set up I'm now done, only the input ever needs updating periodically.

What version of pi are you after? I may have a few dotted around.

LOL, just went down a R2R DAC rabbit hole... and there is a lot of garbage in there, it's worse than audiophile ethernet cables.

The vast majority of R2R DACs are no better than the DAC chips since 2014 on this page http://stephan.win31.de/dac-adc-hist.htm if not actually worse (because they colour the audio in some way — reviews are saying things like "warmer" whilst also saying "transparent", wut?).

There is a perfect DAC, it's measurable, and we're into the age of diminishing returns where they're all effectively as good as each other (so long as the chip comes from the last 6 years).

The one thing these "audiophile" DACs have is a beautiful bit of packaging, something like this https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2022/05/20/holo-audio-may-kte-dac-review/ is gorgeous. Every bit of that is nice and you'd want it visible, it's an aesthetic dream. But, there are no improvements over the sound from one of these recent chips in a less attractive box, so what someone is really spending their money on is the very attractive packaging of the chip in a gorgeous box.

I say that as someone who chose the RME device because it's attractive. As @Timmeh says I could've paid less for the pure DAC rather than AD/DA, but further I could've paid even less if I'd chosen something like the Topping D90 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/ which has the king of chips the AKM AK4499.

Thing is though... none of these chips is any better than the other in any distinguishable way now.

Mostly I have opted for:

1. The looks of the RME device are nice.
   
2. It's an insane device as it's a kind of audio router / audio digital signal processor, which gives a lot of control in the future (as well as allowing me to transfer tapes and vinyl to digital).
   
   

The RME device is pretty sweet looking:

Admittedly not as pretty as the HoloAudio though:

What version of pi are you after?

A 4b if possible.

I have a spare heatsink case for that one already.

Sorry, don't have any 4's.