Musk is a cunt and Tesla are shit

Idk. I can imagine Musk's brand isn't helping things but people attribute too much to Musk on this.

Tesla used to be one of the only decent EV options. It's not any more.

Same with share price. It was massively over valued - even with whatever "first mover" BS fan bois banged on about priced in. Now it's somewhere closer to where it should be.

Now it's somewhere closer to where it should be.

Still miles off tho.

Toyota sold 10 million cars in 2022, 250bn revenue and has a market cap of 200bn.

Tesla sold 1.3 million cars in 2022, 81bn revenue and has a market cap of 550bn.

Tesla’s gross profit margin has been much better - 25-odd% against 15-odd% for Toyota but even with that the stock is still way above any sensible multiple of its current earnings, or indeed its potential future earnings. It’ll drop another 50% at least.

Lots of scary Tesla fails on twitter but this is pretty bad. It's surprising Musky doesn't have Twitter censors deleting all of them.
Pretty shitty service when a car MINUS THE STEERING WHEEL gets towed to a service centre and they have to ask what is wrong with it.

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Preface - Musk is a cunt & I own a Tesla.

Tesla is more than just its vehicle sales though:

1. Battery storage and solar infrastructure for businesses and homes
   
2. Commercial vehicles
   
3. Driverless tech (if it works)
   
   

Toyota are a company who have just retired their CEO as their transition to BEV is basically non-existent.

Not saying Tesla valuation is 100% accurate but comparing it to a dying brand is silly.

I mean definitely if that was a thoughtful question from someone who'd already tried to troubleshoot the issue.

But it's just an auto response to a missing field in some form somewhere.

Having had to send my vehicle in, it's a real person sending that text from the service centre with the car. They should definitely have noticed the steering wheel hanging off :D

On the plus side, despite the Model S being the least reliable electric car sold in the UK, Tesla have managed to claw themselves up from last place to 19th in the league table of most reliable cars in the UK.

I have no wheel and I must steer.

...and for that reason, I'm out.

Given the ubiquity of Toyota hybrids I think suggesting it is a dying brand is getting carried away a bit .

They have three BEV vehicles for sale or pre order too. Not that far behind Tesla.

Toyota and their subsidiaries make thousands of battery powered forklifts and similar warehouse equipment. They get used under severe working conditions. We have a dozen that get driven 24/7 by idiots.
IMO Toyota has a lot more knowledge of making reliable vehicles than Tesla.

Tesla is a fucking dead brand, no matter their successes. See also Brewdog.

Saying Toyota is dying is like when people say stuff about Apple killing Nokia or whatever.

Toyota continue to sell more cars than anyone else in the world by a country mile. Quiet, conservative business practice from the most experienced people in the industry won’t bring ExPonENTiaL GrOWtH but it isn’t the same thing as dying.

Powerwalls are now too expensive compared to their competitors, installers aren’t specifying them.

Tesla self drive isn’t as good as Ford, never mind Mercedes.

Logistics firms won’t buy the trucks until long-term reliability is proven, reliability matters to these businesses in a way it doesn’t to private car owners and Tesla’s reputation is a problem.

My point is, the current valuation is still based on hope rather than actual profitability. My £5 is on that hope diminishing as competitors increasingly make Tesla products look shonkmax.

Saying Toyota is dying is like when people say stuff about Apple killing Nokia or whatever.

Apple did kill Nokia's main business. The network equipment side of things, which is what remained afterwards, had long been seen as a bit of a joke within Nokia, as it was essentially subsidised by the handset business.

I think Intel are fucked, but they are still making billions of dollars (although their core businesses are being lost to their rivals).

Apple did kill Nokia's main business

With plenty of help from Microsoft's Stephen Elop and his burning platform.

The valuation is clearly nuts based on current earnings - so either there’s a path for that valuation to fall to something more in line with earnings, or there’s a path for earnings ( and therefore volumes) to rise to a level to justify the valuation.

I can see the first path, but find it hard to see teslas volumes and profits growing to such stellar levels. The “the rest of the car industry is dying” narrative made some sense a few years back when there was basically no competition, the major manufacturers hadn’t got their act together and Musk wasn’t so toxic. But none of that is true today.

Be interesting to watch whatever happens

Toyota are a company who have just retired their CEO

And made him Chairman

That’s standard Japanese business culture though innit. Fail upwards / never lose face.

I agree the shit out of this.

I think it’s more about honouring and respecting he and his family’s work in creating a sustainable long-term business that employees are proud to work for.

I’d work for any Japanese car maker ahead of Brewdog or The Hutt Group or Purple Bricks or Tesla or any of the other firm of their kind grown on hype and VC and concerned only with making profit rather than making something to be proud of.

Meh. Dunno about the other two points, but the commercial vehicles aspect has been nothing but vapourware.

Nokia were major contributors to their own demise, and Elop's speech was symptomatic of their internal culture. They were a hardware company first and foremost, and when smartphones came along they really struggled with the pivot to a software-led platform. The software they did produce was buggy as hell, and they didn't have the right people in place to integrate multiple software components into a stable platform.

I'd say it's more like those who talked about Apple killing Microsoft.