Owning your own home

I've just had some work on the outside of my house done, and it needed a scaffold tower put up. No hassle in the project beyond a couple of short delays due to frost and safety on the roof.

The builder is finished (this afternoon), I'm happy with his work but I want the scaffolding down. I've no reason to believe it won't be removed by the scaffolders in the timeframe he described (later this week) but was thinking of withholding 25% of the invoice amount until it's gone and the project is complete.

Is this a reasonable thing to do?

Don't know about the percentage, but if the scaffolding was put up by a builder or a subcontractor of the builder, then the job isn't finished until it's taken down. So if your contract is payment on completion of the job then your suggestion is reasonable.

Also surely the payment terms are greater than a week anyway?

Also surely the payment terms are greater than a week anyway?

Thanks . Yeah, I'd have thought. I was expecting the scaffolding to be gone before I was chased so I could ignore it till then!

Just that he's sent texts with all invoice details and so on, so I'm going to have to reply (and don't want to ignore it as I'm happy with the work so don't want to do anything that would imply otherwise).

Yeah I can understand how you feel. But it's just business, so invoice in writing (or at least emailed PDF) is necessary and you can just drop the guy a text saying thanks for the invoice and I'll see that it gets paid, or similar, and then pay within the stated time period.

I think it's not unheard of for scaffolding to be left in-situ until it's needed on the next job. As in, I have heard of that happening. But not sure if it's actually common.

You've had the builder send you photos of the work to demonstrate that it's all been done, right? If not, could ask for those and they will have to go up the scaffolding to take them - you could then ask when it's being taken away face-to-face.

Scaffolders are the bottom of the trade food chain and likely loaded up with substances most of the time. It'll probably be there till they need it for the next job.

Right - they had an incredibly chaotic energy. Stank of weed at 9am and managed to piss off my neighbour with 20 minutes.

That's the main thing that makes me want to wait till it's gone!

Scaffies r hard. Don’t piss them off. It will stay up until they need it somewhere else. This is natural law and you can’t do anything about it.

There was a thread (maybe on here) about someone who tried to get another company along to dismantle it and it all got messy.

With holding money. Jesus christ

No.

How would you feel if someone did the same with you for some work you'd done? You'd be fuming.

Pay the scaffolder and tell him it's ready to take down.

Who organised the scaffolders and the tower? If you then your problem, if the builders then that's on them and lol at paying before the job is complete (ie: works finished, site cleared). How can you be sure that the works won't be damaged as the scaffolding is being dismantled?

Your builder's invoice will have payment terms that will be, or should be, longer than the end of the week. Just say that everything is good and that you'll be making payment this week and see how it plays out. Nearer the time mention the scaffolding and say you'll make transfer when it's being driven away from your property.

No , the scaffolders nothing to do with me - it was organised by the builder.

With holding money. Jesus christ

Yeah, I don't want it to be interpreted like that, hence my asking. I think the alternative way of looking at it is that I've got a load of equipment still at my place and the job isn't finished till it's gone.

You may be right though, that may be what I'm suggesting - seems about an even split I'm comments here!

How can you be sure that the works won't be damaged as the scaffolding is being dismantled?

That's what the scaffolders' insurance is for, right? Although as I type that I am chuckling at the prospect of trying to make a claim.

scaffold tower

If it's actually a tower then it'll come down really quickly.

If it's a full scaffold it'll still come down quickly.

Since your builder arranged the scaffolding, do all of your Comms via the builder.

Make sure they fill in the holes they've drilled into your bricks, stonework, lintels, window surrounds etc with the right materials on the way back down and not laving you with holes. Holes = water in = stone gets cracked eventually.

Even if it was a direct contract, the job is not done if the scaffold is still up.

withholding

Maybe position it as paying part early rather than withholding.

"really pleased with the job, etc. etc. When's the scaffolding going? Keen to get everything tidied up - you know what the wife's like, etc. Get cash flow is important so happy to help out by paying half the invoice in advance of all the scaffolding and equipment being removed"

Out of curiosity there a snagging contingency?

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Just for a little balance, I'm currently involved in a court case trying to get money from a non-paying customer. I now do 100% proforma.

I think a small retainer on a bigger building job is essential just given the nature of builders wanting (and needing) to get onto the next job as soon as they possibly can. Also the sad truth that 90% don't give a fuck about the last most important 10% of the job.

Thanks for the perspectives all. I don't think I need to worry about not paying the full amount within hours of them leaving, and will get in contact with this kind of sentiment in a good timeframe:

Maybe position it as paying part early

It's probably a fuss over nothing, I'm sure it'll be sorted exactly as he advised. It was my first contact with scaffolders and they were an absolute bunch of clowns!

Scaffolders are a unique breed, it is true

scaffolders and they were an absolute bunch of clowns!

They're all the same. Not even borderline criminal, the way 95% of the outfits go about their business.

As has been said, I would be concerned about any damage caused during it coming down. Granted, I have exactly one case study to refer to (when my roof was done), but I was going purely on the builder coming back to fix the work on his word. Scaffolders smashed up the new fascia and gutters and just fucked off. In future I will be considering "work complete" when all kit and agreed rubbish is removed. 25% is a big whack though. But as has been said, it could still come down within what is a reasonable amount of time to pay the invoice. If it were me, I'd pay it when the scaffold comes down and you're happy there is no damage/everything is done. If that doesn't happen before they chase for payment, just say the work isn't done until everything is cleared. Maybe offer to pay 20% of the remaining 25% (or 80% of the outstanding balance, however you want to look at it) and the rest when the scaffold is removed.

Edit: misread the amount you were considering and thought 25% of the total amount was due. Nevertheless, the jist still stands.

For context, we are looking at doing an extension and will get the architect to manage the contract(s). Part of that will be that they check in once a month and advise what percentage of money can/should be released. They will also negotiate that 2% is held for 12 months to make sure everyone is happy/incentivised to make everything right. I would not have even thought of doing that or had the balls to.

Yup, that’s pretty standard in traditional JCT Contracts but definitely the way to do it for anything of a certain value/size. Works valued on a monthly basis with 5% held back. 2.5% released on practical completion (ie: when the scaffolding is removed in the above example/works signed off etc.). 2.5% held back for 12months to rectify any damages resulting from movement/settling etc.