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ltc
I haven't used either but pretty much half way between (in price) is castelli sorpasso. they are 125 at Merlin for black Friday. I bought a pair a few years ago and really like them. the pad is very good, for me at least, and they keep the worst of the weather out. I only wear them when it's properly cold. castelli bibs sizing is mad though; I'm scrawny but I think mine are an XL (I'm medium with most others)