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Tax extraction until they squeak, then tax it some more

The only person who invests is the first person to buy stock in a company. The second-hand market is purely speculative, and its only productive value is in providing an out to the original investor…

No.

You gals are missing the importance of markets in the equation, i.e. who (or what) introduces the buy side to the sell side. Without venal Essex boys, dark liquidity pools and pinky ringed merchant wankers the whole edifice grinds to a halt.

I'm still not sure what point you are making. There are more posho investment bankers involved in a primary capital raise than a secondary share transaction. But the former is good and the latter is bad?

[deleted, I’ll just ignore this thread until the replies stop]

The primary and secondary markets do fundamentally different things though. The secondary market is more akin to just redistribution, given that the buyers aren’t actually paying the company to create some stuff, provide a service and so on.

I’m not going to pretend that everyone’s using the word ‘investment’ wrong, but I would personally prefer for those two processes to have well known and distinct words.

It might change how we engage with fraudsters hyping intangible snake oil for the sake of a purely financial return and open up different models of investment, maybe like mutuals, to direct a bit of that capital on more tangible goods in more local areas.

This is hilarious, disgraced former MP, Owen Paterson, is suing the government via the European Court of Human Rights over the ruling that he broke parliamentary lobbying rules:

https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1595073301952729088?s=46&t=GpW9_AT9KjaX-7EMTSs_5A

And here, in his own words, is his opinion that the UK should leave the EHCR:

https://twitter.com/johnrentoul/status/1595076409789382656?s=46&t=GpW9_AT9KjaX-7EMTSs_5A

These people have no shame, it was well demonstrated during Johnson's premiership.

That's just you entering the discussion in bad faith.

Apologies, as usual it's wise not to mistake stupidity for malice. I had a good lunch and decided to take on the internet, the internet won.

I'm actually very much opposed to the way that funds and pensions divert money towards big tobacco, weapons manufacture and oil etc. I don't give the people who invest in these a moral pass. These people also trusted fund managers and that should be a serious decision. If you want to make a case for people being railroaded into pension schemes being hurt I'm all out of sympathy.

So, sorry for derailing your argument but discussing it was an option.

The most ethical option at my work still includes Shell and Meta... Sent a pissy message on public slack, vage non committal reply. No weapons or tobacco or mining, and some rules RE reducing emissions. But not fantastic no.

I am writing emails via an UK "green my pension" site, will meet with one of the trust members when they are over...but we use legal and general and their least worse is the best we get :(

And I lose the work uprate / income tax deduction for pensions if I invest all by myself. There are few options Triodos doesn't do pensions I found maybe one place.

But I then have to figure out how to get that sent pre income tax into that fund and not sure I can as work may not do this.

So you are right pension funds suck, unfortunately the choices do too. I shall keep pushing though.

I am most fully resigned to losing money by not investing in businesses I completely disagree with. It's up to everyone to make their choice and live with it as with everything in life.

I just like to put it forward because maybe people will consider not funding war and death just to make a few extra percentage points if they see other people are doing it.

It certainly doesn't make me friends at dinner parties!

Pensions and dinner parties.

>>>>> golf club

Is it like that? I wouldn't know. I heard it used to be house prices.

This is an interesting read re gambling v investing.

https://on.ft.com/3GP1wkN

In what way? The article is about putting leverage on investments / repackaging them to sidestep insurance capital regulations. I don't think it really touches the prior discussion.

I think you nicely answered your own question! One would imagine that capital regulations would provide a convenient expert view of the (in my view artificial) distinction. To cut and shut distressed debt into shiny products is surely the différance where this all falls apart.

One would imagine that capital regulations would provide a convenient expert view of the (in my view artificial) distinction.

It's not really what they do. NAIC will give you a capital charge for almost any asset if you want to put in in your insurance company. The question is then what do you define as an "asset". Even a super-leveraged rag-bag of interests in PE funds is an asset in my book.

I don't think distressed debt is relevant per se, although I suppose you could say that a fraction of the underlying issuers would be expected to become distressed through the cycle.

Reads like AIG all over again.

That is the obvious next step... for now no systemically important financial institution has written credit protection insurance on any of these tranches, but it's only a matter of time!

This is still about risk (mainly credit). When one buys a financial product will one get anything back? T bond v 3.20 @ Ludlow? Neither are entirely safe in absolute terms.

An asset is a question of definition; IASB or regulatory, or even the man on the Clapham omnibus.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/26/barbados-tory-mp-pay-reparations-family-slave-richard-drax-caribbean-sugar-plantation

Promising.

Let’s be honest, there is no amount of money that could be paid that would truly reflect the agony that slavery caused. It’s immeasurable. To quantify it would be insulting to the memory of those who were basically kidnapped and worked to death.

I ask this in good faith, do you support this? If so what outcomes would you like to see?

I’m from Dorset and it’s pretty impossible to avoid the wealth of the Drax. However my current unease with this action is it seems to contravene various elements of the UN convention, which to my rather uneducated position seem to be the best place to draw an arbitrary line for limitations.

Hopefully the centrist dad klaxon wasn’t too loud for a Sunday.