Cargo Bikes

Lol at a motor encouraging an out of the saddle riding style. What a load of drivel.

So you're commenting on someone else's extensive experience with a product based on your experience with a different product.

What a load of drivel..

EP8 vs 6100 for an eBullitt - what's the consensus here?

I just bought mine last month.

I read all the stuff about different riding style and it made sense, although I can believe they would over-state it for marketing purposes. And I spoke to the dealer and he said that, unless you rode both one after the other, you wouldn't really notice the difference. I went for the 6100, but mainly because of what was in stock in the colour and gearing I wanted, and it was a bit cheaper.

He's got two customers in Newcastle, one with each type, who both work in the bike industry. He's going to do a comparison video with them.

I'm loving it so far!

It's got three levels. I mainly use it in low (Eco) mode, or with assistance off. For a short hill like a railway bridge it's great to be able to put it up to medium or high and hardly drop any speed!

On the flat, if I'm pedalling hard, I'm around 25 kmh: the motor gets me up to that speed but then stops assisting so the type makes no difference. If my speed drops, the assistance kicks in again but only until I'm back up to speed. Great fun to push it through corners and tilt it over.

I guess the EP8 might make more difference if I didn't want to pedal hard or was in a hillier area and needed the motor to do more work.

Yes. My motor has even more torque. I can't say torque is a thing that's ever made me want to stand and pedal. It's such a bizarre concept to put to potential customers.

How do I connect up lights to the battery I have, in simple talk?
And which ones?

Non electric cargo bike options. Front loading

What's out there at the mo?

So far I've looked at

Omnium (what I have now)
Larry vs harry
Iumentum
Hagen
Velolab.

What am I missing?

Yoonit !

Off-piste options
Bastiaen
Muli

Douze also do one?

What they write in the post, is that the firmware is different between the two models and the torque delivery is different.
I don't claim to know how it is different, but from driving both diesel and petrol cars I know what a difference that can make.

I'm not saying it is something every costumer will notice, but I do believe the information is quite concise.

thanks @Gewürzt @MCamb @skinny @MisterMikkel and @frank9755 for the feedback.

The cost of the bike is being spread out over several years of payments so the bump in price between the 6100 and ep8 isn't a huge concern.

My thinking is that I am better off getting the strongest motor available on the market up front, even if it is surplus to requirements, rather than getting something a bit weaker and then two years down the line wishing that I had done it in the first place, and then paying more for an upgrade.

I might be moving to a hilly area and I am trying to convince my partner to start using the Bullitt (she won't get on the current non-electric one) for shopping etc., so having a bit of a boost to get her started, especially if it's on a hill, is a draw.

I had read the LvH article before, and yes was a bit confused about it tbh, thinking about when I have a heavy load on my current one. Even if I am going up a steep hill I don't think I ever get out of the saddle on the Bullitt. Also a bit unsure about the remarks about the ep8 potentially being a bit scary for kids being transported if you're swaying the bike around while riding fast. Does anyone really do that?

And that's a great point they make about power delivery due to firmware, which is useful to know. But even with a super strong motor, it'll only deliver what you put in and so if you either use low input settings (eco) or don't push on the pedals hard you won't get much drive.

As far as I can tell they're not adressing eco-mode in the post - rather focusing on bigger sustained efforts.

@dubkev I know I wouldn't stand up and pedal with my daughter on board, unless I found out she enjoyed it. I figured the comment was aimed at pedalling style rather than motor size. Standing to pedal with the 6100 would be equally uncomfortable I imagine.

I don't think you'd regret either choice tbh, I tested both at the same time and just felt the EP8 felt more electric than bicycle, I also didn't have the luxury of a cycle scheme so dropping another 2 grand wasn't really a possibility anyway 😂.

Don't know where you're based but I definitely recommend having a test ride still (obviously in London that's easy than a lot of places) because it feels so different to normal riding it's worth getting a feel for what works.

Budget will always be the biggest restraint, but in some ways I think a test ride can be a bit misleading to how it will ultimately handle.

i reckon it takes a few hours maybe over a couple of weeks to really get used to how an E cargo bike handles. Yes the powerful motors are punchy, but you can totally manage it once you get used to it. My experience with the CX was like that anyway.

So when doing a test ride, it might be a bit easy to be put off by the bike that handles most differently to your regular bike, but that might be what you want (you just don’t know it yet)

having a bit of a boost to get her started, especially if it's on a hill, is a draw.

You get that with the 6100. It kicks in pretty quickly.

For your wife, could a less aggressive power ramp up be easier to begin with?

I rode back from a birthday party on Sunday, on a flat twisty road, and we both really enjoyed swinging the bike over round the corners. Can't imagine standing up though.

Mine is in Ealing if you fancy a test!

Older e8000 was super reliable, ep8 so far seems to be reliable, e6100 had lots of failures.
Both newer motors are more efficient and notably quieter than older motors for sure (identical to bosch g4 cx/crg now). As mcamb says, you quickly get used to what you have and don't worry about the other options, most folk can only tell a difference if you put them on different motored bikes back to back in the exact same bit of road.

I’ve got a Butchers and Bicycles cargo which weighs 50kg and has the Bosch Performance CX motor (75nm torque). It gets up anything easily, even with two kids (40kg) on the front. We live by the South Downs.

My partner has just got an Orbea Katu with the Bosch Active motor (40nm torque). I thought the far lighter bike and load would mean it would ride the same, but the lower torque is noticeable, as we’d got used to the CX. It’s hills where you notice it most.

So with that in mind I’d personally go for the most powerful motor available for futureproofing on a cargo bike.

Ah fare enough the leasure motors are not for cargo bikes, hybrid with some panniers only tbf!
Talking about difference between the motors with a rated torque in the 65 to 85nm range.

Rode a triobike with a brose cargo motor (85 or 90 as advertised?) and honestly my e8000 (70nm advertised) motor in the samr type of bike and drive train walked all over it in every situation (brose much quieter though), so sometimes the printed figures I don't think translate to a reality.

Is anyone running the Tongsheng TSDZ2 mid-drive on a light cargo bike? I've got an Omnium Mini Max I'd like to use it on with loads around 30kg, and really like the torque sensing similar to the proper mid-drives.

Ideally I'd like the new belt drive EP8 Mini Max, but not at £5k...

@Chalfie is

I've got one on a Pashley bike that I bought from here a year or so ago (https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/361102/), done about 500km on it. Anything you want to know?

Ah great. Yes please – curious about noise, range and reliability. Does it feel solid and seamless as you're riding, or is it a bit rough around the edges? Been spoilt by Bosch.

Also interested in some real world feedback. Where did you buy the kit from?

I've got the 48V 500W version (which is the same as the one Whoosh Bikes sell I think [even though they rate it as 48V 250W], so UK legal). Nice and powerful, can get up all of Bristol's hills with ease. My battery is 48V, 12.5AH. I've never run out of battery, probably done around 75km between charges. Reliability-wise, I've not had any problems with it at all. It feels pretty solid, but definitely a notch below bosch/shimano (but, it was only £200...). They have just released a new version though (TSDZ2B), so unsure whether this will help with some of the issues that some people have had.

It does make some noise, definitely audible, and louder than bosch/ shimano motors. Here's a little video I made a while ago where you can hear what it sounds like (ignore the big clunk, that's me changing gear).

@Dexter bought both the motor and battery direct from pswpower, shipped from Germany in about a week.

In general, this review is pretty spot on I think: https://www.darkerside.org/2021/03/tongsheng-tsdz2-review/

The one thing I would add is that the firmware is a bit weird, max power output at around 70rpm cadence, drops off nearly completely at around 95rpm. I know you can change it, but you need to buy a seperate lead and plug it in, which is a bit of a faff...

If you want to test ride a non-electric Douze we're in West London...