Rapha, nice but a bit pricey?

Oh, no idea! Have you heard something?

Tbh, I’ve not been to a trade show for two years :/

No, It’s not my core but shoulders and knees i have issues with I overheat in the middle if i wear unpadded longs over bib tights to keep my knees warm with 2 layers, hence finding longs with thin straps not a chest panel work for me.

Alpha insulation on the shoulders is most of the solution just after the final layer.

My partner suffers from raynauds, she loves the alpha specialized top i bought her, if i get a burner it will be for her.

Hah, no. Was kidding, but seems like we’re going to need a novel approach to waterproofing if coated hard-shells are a no-go.

'Breathable' waterproofing is still workable, absolutely, just will never be as effective and durable as the (now phased out) C6, C8 DWR's and (now being discussed) PFOA-based membranes.

I think a few years back Patagonia have invested a significant amount into next-gen DWRs/waterproofing tech.

edit; my age is showing, 7 yrs ago
https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/stories/our-dwr-problem-updated/story-17673.html

I picked up a NWT Classic II jersey in dark navy hi viz pink on Ebay for v cheap, is that a recent item or old and I'll never see one again?

edit. Ahh sold out in UK/EU but Asia warehouse seems to have them.

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Is the environmental / health concern with these waterproofing materials primarily located at the production side of or the end consumer / product level? Obviously its both as the chemicals don't never go away but my question is mainly related to if there is are any specific ways that people ought to be handling old waterproof jackets / various materials?

My initial thought's were "That's nice and cute of Gore for cycling, but unfortunately the Ski industry still exists."

My understanding - and I’m not a chemical expert - is that the hazardous compounds are byproducts of creating the treatments (but tests have shown varying amounts contaminating the final waterproofing)

Example of the ‘safe’ nature on consumer side might be Teflon coating on pans ….but then again, it depends who you talk to or what site you read up on these things!

It’s big - a lot of the Scandinavian outdoor/snow brands started transitioning way back, and there’s some interesting alternatives emerging. Be great to see where we’re at in 5, 10 years.

Yeah absolutely, and I think a lot of my understanding of where that industry is at, is outdated. Eco waxes, epoxies and resins have come a long way from what I understand, as well as more sustainable core materials. Still, I think wax ending up directly on the mountain is a huge issue.

edit::: not to mention the air travel & resort running carbon footprints for such pursuits.

ALD doesn't count. I am assuming this is ALD. It wreaks of ALD.

The irony of this is that forever chemicals are the least of their worries when glaciers are receding like never before and when they're defacing otherwise largely untouched glaciers.

Patagonia did a good film on it last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eofG6Z-YBxA

Saved for later, thanks - I find it hard to engage with PG stuff in my inbox (or any other brand content for that matter, spent too long on the Rapha end of it).

I've never subbed to their YouTube channel because they upload product videos to the same channel as their longer form content which is annoying - but funnily enough I just watched this
as I had been interested in the pack and it explicitly stated: 'PFC free waterproof DWR coating' so @Chopsicle 's memory isn't so bad after all.

quite like the £128 "deep green" PT bib shorts on sale. but actually how green are they? anyone got any irl pictures? dont seem very green to me tbh

this green...

I believe the Columbia outdry technology is notionally better, but haven't tried it yet.

Paramo do in fact have some nominally cycling garments. I have a windproof hi Viz jacket I used for commuting, very breathable and if proofed keeps pretty heavy rain off for the length of my commute (30 mins). Only let down for target audience of this thread is the paramo roomy fit and that I think they struggle to make the fabric stretchy to enable a racier fit? Also the waterproof paramo is arguably too warm for cycling other than in winter?

The issue is PFC free DWR is basically useless.

oooo much greener than they look on the website. thanks - will cop

I love that backpacks are morphing into vests. Welcome development IMO. Black Diamond are also making some great options like this that go up to 20l IIRC.

The vibe shift is deep at Rapha..

https://www.itsnicethat.com/news/braulio-amado-rapha-190822

that’s just one of those AI mid journey things isn’t it?
‘art school daubings for aspirational instagramming cyclist’

Been looking at packs for fast packing all day actually, including the BD Distance 8 and 15. Not sure they’re right though, but yeah, I had some vest straps on a backpacking pack and they were great. The pack was too big for me - volume wise, but otherwise it was super.

Actually those look very nice