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… so I'm not sure at what point toil would kick in if you've been drinking since 3pm.
5pm
Seriously though, yeh I’m dredging the TOIL chat. I get both sides. Absolutely don’t work for free, especially most of us are seeing a pay cut due to inflation. But at the same time, if someone is regularly working overtime and accruing TOIL… they probably need to work - I’ll be polite - smarter.
I did a 12hr day the other week, so started late the next day and did a turbo session (I’m on a 35hr week so 7.5hr days, but it’s generally “just get your work done and don’t be a piss taker”), but I have colleagues who are serially ‘done’ by COP on Wednesday so they don’t turn up Thursday/Friday (or barely) or they’re amassing TOIL.
I don’t know what they’re doing. I’ve spoken at length about this with our gaffer. She also has a private sector/consultancy upbringing so it causes her the same consternation.
Work smart; not hard.
Ben689908-
No. I meant 3pm. 12noon at Xmas.
It also depends which side you're coming from doesn't it?
If some people can do the job in 3 days an others in +5 days, then it suggests that their managers aren't doing their job.
I think a lot of your view is shaped by where you've worked. If you've been in large organisations then ime people are often a lot more, "that's not my job", "I'm not working for free". Whereas if you're in a small business where you can literally see all of the work distribution and you don't have the head count for dedicated roles for every task you muck in a bit more.
Overall though it's about openness and consistency. I the job I mentioned before it always grated when the boss made a dig at time keeping or attendance. We'd often get paid late and the nature of the work was that you'd routinely sit on your hands for most of the day/week and then have to work flat out once whatever dependency you were waiting on came through.
hugo7
Most of my career has been in flexible environments where you're expected to do the hours required. At times it's also involved networking stuff, so I'm not sure at what point toil would kick in if you've been drinking since 3pm. I've always liked the give and take, but I can understand why someone who works at the other end likes the certainty.
My experience of people is they seem to respond better to a bit of trust. I always remember talking to a consultant who's previous employer started militantly clocking their time, so everyone just gamed the system and started booking meetings to stretch lunch breaks. Likewise an old school sales guy who's boss mandated he have more 'lunches' just started ordering two meals when he went out.